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Zyborg
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02 May 2009, 11:08 am

There is one ideology which I hate over everything else.

Liberal democracy, limited by constitutional restraints.

I am talking of traditional ideology beginning with Adam Smith. Its centre upon man as "economic, rational being". Its individualism. Its egoism. Its lack of passion. It has spawned into several philosophies.

Market liberalism
Social liberalism
Social democracy
Libertarianism
Objectivism

I hate them all. With extreme passion.

Even though I am communist, I have no problems with islamism, nazism, fascism, monarchism, catholic phalangism, or any other sane ideology. They are actually constructing vision of how world should look like and not how few fat rats in extreme minority should rule financial institutions of world and force every honest working man into debt slavery and exploitation.

I am tired of how liberalism is enjoying in destruction of moral virtues, of social codes, of obligations, values and family life. I am tired of seeing perverts on the streets, extreme sexualisation of public space and inane focus on fashion magazines, neon signs and commercials, as well as celebrity scandals.

I am tired of people eating hamburgers and drinking coca-cola.

I am tired of people buying make-up for millions while one billion people is starving.

I think current society morally is lower than society of baboon.

Even islam fundamentalism is superior to western society.

I am totalitarian person. I believe we need system with values. System which tells people what is good and what is bad. System which if person is degenerated filth goes in and correct mind of person by labour camp or bullet.

I do not think that is harmful to Aspergians. I think Aspergians would be better off in society with strict values and moral codes. What is tearing minds of Aspergians apart is need to become individual and compete with other individuals, instead of specialising on interests.

We should be star conquerors and build space-suits for glorious cosmonauts.



Sand
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02 May 2009, 11:25 am

Zyborg wrote:
There is one ideology which I hate over everything else.

Liberal democracy, limited by constitutional restraints.

I am talking of traditional ideology beginning with Adam Smith. Its centre upon man as "economic, rational being". Its individualism. Its egoism. Its lack of passion. It has spawned into several philosophies.

Market liberalism
Social liberalism
Social democracy
Libertarianism
Objectivism

I hate them all. With extreme passion.

Even though I am communist, I have no problems with islamism, nazism, fascism, monarchism, catholic phalangism, or any other sane ideology. They are actually constructing vision of how world should look like and not how few fat rats in extreme minority should rule financial institutions of world and force every honest working man into debt slavery and exploitation.

I am tired of how liberalism is enjoying in destruction of moral virtues, of social codes, of obligations, values and family life. I am tired of seeing perverts on the streets, extreme sexualisation of public space and inane focus on fashion magazines, neon signs and commercials, as well as celebrity scandals.

I am tired of people eating hamburgers and drinking coca-cola.

I am tired of people buying make-up for millions while one billion people is starving.

I think current society morally is lower than society of baboon.

Even islam fundamentalism is superior to western society.

I am totalitarian person. I believe we need system with values. System which tells people what is good and what is bad. System which if person is degenerated filth goes in and correct mind of person by labour camp or bullet.

I do not think that is harmful to Aspergians. I think Aspergians would be better off in society with strict values and moral codes. What is tearing minds of Aspergians apart is need to become individual and compete with other individuals, instead of specialising on interests.

We should be star conquerors and build space-suits for glorious cosmonauts.


Although I go along with the hamburger and coca-cola bit I am somewhat leery about the rest of it. Do you wear dark glasses and an ankle length black leather overcoat to hide your AK-47?



Zyborg
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02 May 2009, 11:30 am

Sand wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
There is one ideology which I hate over everything else.

Liberal democracy, limited by constitutional restraints.

I am talking of traditional ideology beginning with Adam Smith. Its centre upon man as "economic, rational being". Its individualism. Its egoism. Its lack of passion. It has spawned into several philosophies.

Market liberalism
Social liberalism
Social democracy
Libertarianism
Objectivism

I hate them all. With extreme passion.

Even though I am communist, I have no problems with islamism, nazism, fascism, monarchism, catholic phalangism, or any other sane ideology. They are actually constructing vision of how world should look like and not how few fat rats in extreme minority should rule financial institutions of world and force every honest working man into debt slavery and exploitation.

I am tired of how liberalism is enjoying in destruction of moral virtues, of social codes, of obligations, values and family life. I am tired of seeing perverts on the streets, extreme sexualisation of public space and inane focus on fashion magazines, neon signs and commercials, as well as celebrity scandals.

I am tired of people eating hamburgers and drinking coca-cola.

I am tired of people buying make-up for millions while one billion people is starving.

I think current society morally is lower than society of baboon.

Even islam fundamentalism is superior to western society.

I am totalitarian person. I believe we need system with values. System which tells people what is good and what is bad. System which if person is degenerated filth goes in and correct mind of person by labour camp or bullet.

I do not think that is harmful to Aspergians. I think Aspergians would be better off in society with strict values and moral codes. What is tearing minds of Aspergians apart is need to become individual and compete with other individuals, instead of specialising on interests.

We should be star conquerors and build space-suits for glorious cosmonauts.


Although I go along with the hamburger and coca-cola bit I am somewhat leery about the rest of it. Do you wear dark glasses and an ankle length black leather overcoat to hide your AK-47?


No.

Do I look like I am insane?

I usually wear worn-out jacket, pants I inherited from my father, and old shirt. Sometimes, I wear vest. My glasses are old glasses from 1970's which I inherited from my father, but put new glasses in.

I do not possess any weapons of any sort.

I do not believe in terrorism as mechanism for social change. Terrorism make people solidarise with state.

Only two peoples are generally thinking about terrorism as prime tool to achieve social change. Americans (because of extreme individualism) and muslims (because of Paradise and 72 virgins). In all other countries, terrorism has mostly been either used by madmen or by movements which lack resources to wage regular guerilla war.

I believe tool to change society is revolutionary vanguard party, led by iron hand of glorious leader and his commissars.



Master_Pedant
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02 May 2009, 11:31 am

Firstly, I think your genesis of social democracy is a little schewed. Its equally a product of liberal democracy as it is of nineteenth century socialism.

Secondly, your system of thought is insanely naive. I reccomend reading Chris Hedges I Don't Believe in Atheists. While I am an atheist myself and was not moved to become a rather ambigious, liberal Christian with intangible beliefs about God, I still found the book quite rewarding as it debunked the sort of ideological perfectionism and desire to change human nature you exhibit.

For the record, I consider myself a social democrat (I admire the socioeconomic system of Fenno-Scandinavia) whose a bit fond of a more civic participative system. I believe in consistutional restraints but I do have nanny statist tendencies (I think it is perfectly fine to levy a 30% sin tax on alchohol and cigarrettes and believe that Child and Family Services should not respect "family unity" beyond reason).

A lot of problems with the excesses of modern society can be eliminated by internalizing that there "is no I without a we", as Rob Aronson would so aptly say. This equally applies to the introverted, while we may not interact concretely with other people we do so abstractly.* Society needs to recognize that actions have consequences and the public must be more informed. Buying cheap tea or sustaining sweatshops detrimentally affects those the world over. We need a globalization, but a person (rather than corporated) centred variety with a robust regulatory structure.

I am unsure whether petty gossip will ever die. But I do believe that, with gentle nudging, the public is not beyond hope. With committment, prejudices like subterrenean racism or overt homophobia are surmountable.

The public needs to be concerned about civic matters. The citizenry needs to participate and get informed much more often. Critical thinking skills must be instilled.

This task requires tremendous consciousness raising, not mass executions.

NOTE
---------
* I am alluding to Popper who ,in The Open Society and Its Enemies, wrote about an abstract society (where people interacted purely through typewriters [replace this with computers and such a society is possible today]) enclosed in metal cars sealed off from all light.



vibratetogether
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02 May 2009, 11:49 am

You've taken something pure (empathy) and distorted it in a grotesque manner.

There is almost no chance of a humanist revolution, so you have to live in a world with a monetary system. As long as there is a monetary system, Libertarian principles are the only way to respect others and their rights.

With the political philosophies you suggested, there is no respect for the rights of anyone. Being that this oligarchy is already incredibly well-entrenched in world politics, the only thing we can do is fight tooth and nail for our rights to live as we wish. You would willingly give up your rights with the hope that this oligarchy will do the right thing, but trust me, they won't. You give up your rights and it'll be even worse.



Sand
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02 May 2009, 12:10 pm

Zyborg wrote:
Sand wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
There is one ideology which I hate over everything else.

Liberal democracy, limited by constitutional restraints.

I am talking of traditional ideology beginning with Adam Smith. Its centre upon man as "economic, rational being". Its individualism. Its egoism. Its lack of passion. It has spawned into several philosophies.

Market liberalism
Social liberalism
Social democracy
Libertarianism
Objectivism

I hate them all. With extreme passion.

Even though I am communist, I have no problems with islamism, nazism, fascism, monarchism, catholic phalangism, or any other sane ideology. They are actually constructing vision of how world should look like and not how few fat rats in extreme minority should rule financial institutions of world and force every honest working man into debt slavery and exploitation.

I am tired of how liberalism is enjoying in destruction of moral virtues, of social codes, of obligations, values and family life. I am tired of seeing perverts on the streets, extreme sexualisation of public space and inane focus on fashion magazines, neon signs and commercials, as well as celebrity scandals.

I am tired of people eating hamburgers and drinking coca-cola.

I am tired of people buying make-up for millions while one billion people is starving.

I think current society morally is lower than society of baboon.

Even islam fundamentalism is superior to western society.

I am totalitarian person. I believe we need system with values. System which tells people what is good and what is bad. System which if person is degenerated filth goes in and correct mind of person by labour camp or bullet.

I do not think that is harmful to Aspergians. I think Aspergians would be better off in society with strict values and moral codes. What is tearing minds of Aspergians apart is need to become individual and compete with other individuals, instead of specialising on interests.

We should be star conquerors and build space-suits for glorious cosmonauts.


Although I go along with the hamburger and coca-cola bit I am somewhat leery about the rest of it. Do you wear dark glasses and an ankle length black leather overcoat to hide your AK-47?


No.

Do I look like I am insane?

I usually wear worn-out jacket, pants I inherited from my father, and old shirt. Sometimes, I wear vest. My glasses are old glasses from 1970's which I inherited from my father, but put new glasses in.

I do not possess any weapons of any sort.

I do not believe in terrorism as mechanism for social change. Terrorism make people solidarise with state.

Only two peoples are generally thinking about terrorism as prime tool to achieve social change. Americans (because of extreme individualism) and muslims (because of Paradise and 72 virgins). In all other countries, terrorism has mostly been either used by madmen or by movements which lack resources to wage regular guerilla war.

I believe tool to change society is revolutionary vanguard party, led by iron hand of glorious leader and his commissars.


I take it you are Russian. Have you been satisfied with the "glorious leaders" of the past? Didn't they impress you as being self serving thugs that had no moral compunction about huge death dealing policies? And hadn't their economic policies lead to national ruin?
I am no admirer of the brutal capitalist empire building policies of th major nations of the West but as much as the ideals of communism are interesting their totalitarian prerequisites have inevitably led to a rule of brutish thugs and economic inefficiencies.



techstepgenr8tion
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02 May 2009, 12:33 pm

Zyborg, I think you'll likely be sickened and feeling very deflated for a few weeks or even years once you realize that - with the way human nature works - this is the best we can do.

As far as the greatness of totalitarian or communist states - try consulting Eldridge Cleaver's memoirs about that one.



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02 May 2009, 12:37 pm

The OP doesn't have a clue what Social Democracy is about at all.

I consider myself somewhere between Left-Wing Radical and Social Democrat at the moment, BTW.


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Zyborg
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02 May 2009, 1:32 pm

vibratetogether wrote:
You've taken something pure (empathy) and distorted it in a grotesque manner.

There is almost no chance of a humanist revolution, so you have to live in a world with a monetary system. As long as there is a monetary system, Libertarian principles are the only way to respect others and their rights.

With the political philosophies you suggested, there is no respect for the rights of anyone. Being that this oligarchy is already incredibly well-entrenched in world politics, the only thing we can do is fight tooth and nail for our rights to live as we wish. You would willingly give up your rights with the hope that this oligarchy will do the right thing, but trust me, they won't. You give up your rights and it'll be even worse.


I do not intend to negotiate with current oligarchy.

I intend to set up my own oligarchy.

There are three kinds of dictators.

1. Dictators who benefit entrenched few bankers (Pinochet, Saddam, Bush)

2. Dictators who benefit majority of people at expense of minority (Stalin)

3. Dictators who destroy everyone (Hitler, Pol Pot)

Oligarchy of capitalists and bankers are result of laissez faire capitalism. They created modern bourgeois nation-state to benefit themselves. Laissez faire without state is impossible, and state under capitalism will always defend interests of property owners.

You libertarians have sick, perverse and twisted understanding of rights. For you, it is violence to put capitalist enemy of people in Gulag, but not to watch hungry child starve to death.

You disgust me.



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02 May 2009, 1:44 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Zyborg, I think you'll likely be sickened and feeling very deflated for a few weeks or even years once you realize that - with the way human nature works - this is the best we can do.

As far as the greatness of totalitarian or communist states - try consulting Eldridge Cleaver's memoirs about that one.


If human nature kills planet, we must destroy human nature and reshape it.

Human nature = Neurotypical nature = Hairless ape



Zyborg
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02 May 2009, 1:46 pm

Sand wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
Sand wrote:
Zyborg wrote:
There is one ideology which I hate over everything else.

Liberal democracy, limited by constitutional restraints.

I am talking of traditional ideology beginning with Adam Smith. Its centre upon man as "economic, rational being". Its individualism. Its egoism. Its lack of passion. It has spawned into several philosophies.

Market liberalism
Social liberalism
Social democracy
Libertarianism
Objectivism

I hate them all. With extreme passion.

Even though I am communist, I have no problems with islamism, nazism, fascism, monarchism, catholic phalangism, or any other sane ideology. They are actually constructing vision of how world should look like and not how few fat rats in extreme minority should rule financial institutions of world and force every honest working man into debt slavery and exploitation.

I am tired of how liberalism is enjoying in destruction of moral virtues, of social codes, of obligations, values and family life. I am tired of seeing perverts on the streets, extreme sexualisation of public space and inane focus on fashion magazines, neon signs and commercials, as well as celebrity scandals.

I am tired of people eating hamburgers and drinking coca-cola.

I am tired of people buying make-up for millions while one billion people is starving.

I think current society morally is lower than society of baboon.

Even islam fundamentalism is superior to western society.

I am totalitarian person. I believe we need system with values. System which tells people what is good and what is bad. System which if person is degenerated filth goes in and correct mind of person by labour camp or bullet.

I do not think that is harmful to Aspergians. I think Aspergians would be better off in society with strict values and moral codes. What is tearing minds of Aspergians apart is need to become individual and compete with other individuals, instead of specialising on interests.

We should be star conquerors and build space-suits for glorious cosmonauts.


Although I go along with the hamburger and coca-cola bit I am somewhat leery about the rest of it. Do you wear dark glasses and an ankle length black leather overcoat to hide your AK-47?


No.

Do I look like I am insane?

I usually wear worn-out jacket, pants I inherited from my father, and old shirt. Sometimes, I wear vest. My glasses are old glasses from 1970's which I inherited from my father, but put new glasses in.

I do not possess any weapons of any sort.

I do not believe in terrorism as mechanism for social change. Terrorism make people solidarise with state.

Only two peoples are generally thinking about terrorism as prime tool to achieve social change. Americans (because of extreme individualism) and muslims (because of Paradise and 72 virgins). In all other countries, terrorism has mostly been either used by madmen or by movements which lack resources to wage regular guerilla war.

I believe tool to change society is revolutionary vanguard party, led by iron hand of glorious leader and his commissars.


I take it you are Russian. Have you been satisfied with the "glorious leaders" of the past? Didn't they impress you as being self serving thugs that had no moral compunction about huge death dealing policies? And hadn't their economic policies lead to national ruin?
I am no admirer of the brutal capitalist empire building policies of th major nations of the West but as much as the ideals of communism are interesting their totalitarian prerequisites have inevitably led to a rule of brutish thugs and economic inefficiencies.


Lenin = Average

Stalin = Very Good

Chrustjov = Bad

Brezhnev = Average

Andropov = Good

Chernenko = Average

Gorbachev = Very Bad

Yeltsin = Extremely Bad

Putin = Bad



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02 May 2009, 1:54 pm

Maybe you should stop worrying about everyone's ideology and just focus on yourself. If everyone thought for themselves and weren't so taken in by ideologies, then we might get closer to a Utopian society. It's human nature to want to control. It stems from our lower intellect and is mostly emotionally centered.


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Zyborg
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02 May 2009, 1:56 pm

Henriksson wrote:
The OP doesn't have a clue what Social Democracy is about at all.

I consider myself somewhere between Left-Wing Radical and Social Democrat at the moment, BTW.


What is social democracy about then?

Stealing toblerone chocolatte with tax payer money?

Selling national assets to foreign speculators?

Building huge mansion?

Give enormous bonuses to directors of state-owned firms?

Closing psychiatric clinics?

Abolishing grades so all children would be equally stupid?

Social democracy is inherently bourgeois. Therefore, it is inherently capitalist.

Some countries have been social democrat for decades. They are not less capitalist because of that. Neither are they less imperialist. Look at Tony Blair and invasion of Iraq.



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02 May 2009, 1:58 pm

Magnus wrote:
Maybe you should stop worrying about everyone's ideology and just focus on yourself. If everyone thought for themselves and weren't so taken in by ideologies, then we might get closer to a Utopian society. It's human nature to want to control. It stems from our lower intellect and is mostly emotionally centered.


It is that everyone are thinking for themselves which has caused degenerated society which is around us.

Society were men strive to be thieves and gangsters, and women strive to be prostitutes. That is caused by extreme individualism.

Individualism are for those responsible and worthy.

Most humans need moral guidance.

Freedom in modern liberal democratic societies is freedom to violate basic ethical norms.



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02 May 2009, 1:58 pm

You are welcome to your opinion; to impose it on others unwillingly, I find reprehensible. There is nothing redeeming in a dictatorship, in my opinion... perhaps the dictator sees differently, but the very idea I find asinine.


M.


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02 May 2009, 2:04 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
You are welcome to your opinion; to impose it on others unwillingly, I find reprehensible. There is nothing redeeming in a dictatorship, in my opinion... perhaps the dictator sees differently, but the very idea I find asinine.


M.


I am not against democracy. I am against liberal democracy.

Liberal democracy is ruled by constitution which protects property of bankers and speculants. Parasites.

I want economic democracy. Working man should control fruits of his labour and his workplace. Laws should be made by referendums. Resources should be owned and managed by all of society, for best for society. Not best for greedy profit-driven rootless cosmopolitan minority.