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Your thoughts on murder
Murder is wrong because it is unlawful killing 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
Murder is wrong because we'd all be dead if we all murdered 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Murder is wrong because taking life is wrong 26%  26%  [ 11 ]
Murder is ok if it saves lives 28%  28%  [ 12 ]
Murder is ok if I need to in order to sustain MY life 14%  14%  [ 6 ]
Murder is ok if it helps the people I care about or I am ordered to do it 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Murder is right if I gain from it and do not risk much 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Murder is right if the other person deserves it 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
Murder is right if I want to 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
Ok, AG, you're weird 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 43

Awesomelyglorious
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24 Apr 2008, 8:45 pm

Many people assert that murder is unethical, perverse, or evil, but why should we consider it so? Why do we need to care about the stain left by a slain man? Why should our conscience care about such matters? If I killed a man because doing so saved the lives of many others, then am I a devil? What if I did so because I needed to provide money to support the lives of myself and my family? What if I only did so because it brought me great wealth? And what if I did this because of the base pleasure at seeing a man die at my leisure? What are your thoughts ladies and gents? Is this topic too dark to even consider, or are the ethics of murder something we need to consider or even already are dealing with?

Poll included. Explanations of answers appreciated.



aaronrey
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24 Apr 2008, 8:48 pm

some murders are justified.

during the world war ii, some german officials tried (and failed) to kill hitler. if they had been successful, they might have been hailed as heroes.



oscuria
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24 Apr 2008, 9:28 pm

The reason murder is a negative is due to us living in a society. If we didn't, murder would not be unlawful. It would be the law.

To go by its definition, murder will always be murder no matter how it is applied. There is no such thing as a justified murder (in fact it is a contradiction). A man is still murdered and the the other still a murderer.

When factors come into play, there must be an interpretation as to what can be seen justified. In my "holier than thou" mentality, killing a person for food deserves nothing but equal retribution--we are not barbarians. Killing a person because he assaulted you is justified because the assailant was a barbarian. Killing a person over honor is barbaric and backwards, unless such a disgrace has very severe consequences (you can think of the possibilities). You can claim my "desire" in the death of a person to be barbaric but that isn't the case.

Now, we differentiate murders by calling them separate things: Assassination, Execution, etc. If the death of a person can be prevented, that is the best road. But there are times when society is better off with others dead. To add, I would fully support the death penalty for rapists, especially for those who have a sexually transmitted disease; even those who pass the disease consensually without care for the victim. I feel such people deserve not to live as they do not take their lives in this world seriously, instead living recklessly and with no regard.



NewRotIck
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24 Apr 2008, 9:29 pm

Simple math. If by killing one person you could save two or more innocent lives, it would be unethical not to do it. There are of course exceptions, because you'd also need to take into account other factors such as the ages of those involved. For example, killing a baby (with maybe 80 years of life ahead of them) to save two elderly people (with 10-20 years of life left each) would be an unacceptable tradeoff.

However real life is not that simple, because you can never be certain that killing someone would actually save other lives. That is why murder is basically taboo in civilised society, no matter the reason.



oscuria
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24 Apr 2008, 9:45 pm

NewRotIck wrote:
Simple math. If by killing one person you could save two or more innocent lives, it would be unethical not to do it. There are of course exceptions, because you'd also need to take into account other factors such as the ages of those involved. For example, killing a baby (with maybe 80 years of life ahead of them) to save two elderly people (with 10-20 years of life left each) would be an unacceptable tradeoff.

However real life is not that simple, because you can never be certain that killing someone would actually save other lives. That is why murder is basically taboo in civilised society, no matter the reason.


There are more factors than that, you know?

Like your first line: "If by killing..." Who was in the right of the killing? Was the one murdered going to kill the two because they robbed and raped his wife? Was he/she going to kill them over a previous murder or because the person was being attacked?



NewRotIck
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24 Apr 2008, 9:58 pm

oscuria wrote:
There are more factors than that, you know?

Like your first line: "If by killing..." Who was in the right of the killing? Was the one murdered going to kill the two because they robbed and raped his wife? Was he/she going to kill them over a previous murder or because the person was being attacked?


Well my words "two or more innocent lives" kind of rules out the scenario you just described.

And of course there a bajillion factors that you'd have to take into account if you had a Gods-eye view of the situation. Is that guy going to cure cancer if he survives? Is that one going to die two weeks later in a car accident?

But someone who actually has to make the decision whether or not to kill a person probably isn't going to have all the facts. In many cases all they'll have are the cold, hard numbers.



oscuria
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24 Apr 2008, 10:04 pm

NewRotIck wrote:
oscuria wrote:
There are more factors than that, you know?

Like your first line: "If by killing..." Who was in the right of the killing? Was the one murdered going to kill the two because they robbed and raped his wife? Was he/she going to kill them over a previous murder or because the person was being attacked?


Well my words "two or more innocent lives" kind of rules out the scenario you just described.

And of course there a bajillion factors that you'd have to take into account if you had a Gods-eye view of the situation. Is that guy going to cure cancer if he survives? Is that one going to die two weeks later in a car accident?

But someone who actually has to make the decision whether or not to kill a person probably isn't going to have all the facts. In many cases all they'll have are the cold, hard numbers.


I'm sure I overlooked the "innocent" part. Either way, who can decide who is actually innocent??

:P



Izaak
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25 Apr 2008, 6:49 am

Murder is NEVER right because a person has a right to their life. An inalienable right, one might say.

To arbitrarily take that away is immoral.

However, there can be reasons why "killing" someone is OK. But never murder.



bheid
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25 Apr 2008, 7:03 am

Ok, who's the jackass who voted "Murder is right if I want to"?? 8O

I would only murder if it saved my own life.



monty
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25 Apr 2008, 7:41 am

bheid wrote:
Ok, who's the jackass who voted "Murder is right if I want to"?? 8O

I would only murder if it saved my own life.


So for you, murder is right if you want to, because you only want to when it is justified.



SilverProteus
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25 Apr 2008, 9:40 am

Oscuria, under what circumstances would you murder somebody?


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bheid
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25 Apr 2008, 3:09 pm

monty wrote:
bheid wrote:
Ok, who's the jackass who voted "Murder is right if I want to"?? 8O

I would only murder if it saved my own life.


So for you, murder is right if you want to, because you only want to when it is justified.


not really, nothing to do with justification. Hell, I don't even believe in capital punishment.
That being said, I'm selfish.



ouinon
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25 Apr 2008, 4:19 pm

I voted unlawful.

It is wrong because society says it is. Otherwise it just comes down to personal perspective, and society needs agreement between people on certain issues if it is to function.

:study:



Last edited by ouinon on 28 Apr 2008, 5:14 am, edited 3 times in total.

marshall
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25 Apr 2008, 9:08 pm

If I murdered someone it would undoubtedly cause me tremendous guilt, even without punishment. Ultimately I think this strong negative emotion associated with harming other humans is what stops me from murdering. I can’t give a hard reason why murder is wrong though. Utilitarian logic is good in practice, but I know that it isn’t what actually stops me from murdering.

On another note, I notice a lot of people think they can justify killing animals because they are “less sentient”. That argument peeves me a bit. The whole idea of sentience is so nebulous that I don’t know how people can make such a declaration. How do they know?

In the end it all comes down to an emotional response. We don’t like killing humans because we sympathize/empathize with other humans more than we do with animals. The emotional response isn’t there with life forms less advanced than humans. That’s really all there is to it I think.



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25 Apr 2008, 10:33 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Many people assert that murder is unethical, perverse, or evil, but why should we consider it so? Why do we need to care about the stain left by a slain man? Why should our conscience care about such matters? If I killed a man because doing so saved the lives of many others, then am I a devil? What if I did so because I needed to provide money to support the lives of myself and my family? What if I only did so because it brought me great wealth? And what if I did this because of the base pleasure at seeing a man die at my leisure? What are your thoughts ladies and gents? Is this topic too dark to even consider, or are the ethics of murder something we need to consider or even already are dealing with?

Poll included. Explanations of answers appreciated.


imo murder is never right and it is always wrong. but when you have to choose between the lesser of two evils i.e. kill 1 man, or let a million others die if you don't kill him then its forgiveable, the murder aspect is still wrong but forgiveable and understandable. same go's for survival.



NewRotIck
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26 Apr 2008, 12:14 am

Confused-Fish wrote:
imo murder is never right and it is always wrong. but when you have to choose between the lesser of two evils i.e. kill 1 man, or let a million others die if you don't kill him then its forgiveable, the murder aspect is still wrong but forgiveable and understandable. same go's for survival.


So you think that inaction that causes the death of a million people is morally better than an action that causes the death of one person?

I have the opposite opinion. I think that failing to kill one person to save a million other people would be morally wrong, but somewhat forgivable, given the innate aversion to violence that many people have. To me, the most moral choice is to do whatever you can to lower the overall loss of life. Whether that choice is inaction (allowing a murder) or action (committing a murder) is less relevant to me than the scale of the outcome (the number of people dead). But if someone does choose to harm a person, they had better be damn sure that it would prevent greater harm to others.