Atheists: would you make your kids believe in Santa?

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hypothetical situation in my case as I don't have nor plan on having kids- but I think I wouldn't. not only because I am a terrible liar and even a 3-year-old could easily see through my BS. I tend to think that if you wouldn't want your kid to believe in gods, fairies, heaven and hell and you'd want them to grow up to be a rational and enlightened human being, there is no reason to make an exception for the guy who rides magical reindeers and brings all of Earth's kids presents on Christmas.

but on the other hand- would that not be a bit too cruel? taking away the "magic" of Christmas from the poor kid? and what about all the kids who'd go to school/kindergarten with your skeptical offspring and could have their naive faith in the guy shattered forever?

for me finding out that there was no Santa was a part of the general trauma of discovering that the grown-ups don't know everything and that they lie. but existence of Santa as such I couldn't care less about, as long as there still were presents

so, would you? why/why not?

Also childless by choice.

I think I'd stay kind of quiet on the whole Santa issue until the issue comes up organically. "Mommy, everyone at school is going on and on about this Santa guy..." Then I would indeed explain in simple terms that Santa is a cool fairy tale but just that, a fairy tale.

Yes, mine might be the only kid in daycare trying to tell the rest of the kids that Santa is a fun idea but still make-believe like when they play alien-robots or princess-magical-kingdom games. But a few years later, it will emerge that my kid was right.

And it helps plant a seed of questioning in the other kids. "Gee, if a small minority turned out to be right about that fairy tale, what other fairy tales are believed by a majority which are ultimately untrue?"

Nothing magical about santa. Remember, he only rewards the 'good' kids. I happen to have left that part out when doing the santa thing with mine. It is a strange thing to see a parent use santa as a tool to control their children's behavior during the holiday season. I had it lucky because my mother had a wonderful cloth book, geared for children, about the history of the story of santa and how it came to be what it is now. She read it to me as a child and I borrowed it from her and read it to mine.

yeah I guess it's quite manipulative, but IIRC it did work in my case- I remember being extra good just to "deserve" better gifts from Santa. I also remember *not* doing many mischievous things for the fear of hell- now I wish I'd done them all

the question is- are kids (say up to 7-9 years of age) actually capable of being "good" without some external motivation (i.e. presents/not ending up in flames for eternity)?

I would probably just leave that decision up to my wife or the mother of my children really.

There's a great line in one of patrick kavanaghs poetry that pretty much states my beliefs on this: "through a Chinese too wide comes in no wonder". It's grand to want your kids to be rational and logical, but to be honest when did knowledge ever make someone happy? In less than sixty years time most of us will be dead, and all our knowledge will be useless anyway. I'd lie to anyone if I knew it'd make them happy, happiness is what I strive towards having in life (not that that one wish will ever come true )

Which is a big part of where religion comes from.

- "My kid wants to know why there are clouds. I don't know. I want my kid to have an answer so I tell him they're God's dusty footprints. It's a lie but it makes my kid happy and makes me look cool for knowing the answer."

- "The people of my land want God to lead them to victory over everyone we hate. I'll tell them God personally chose me to be his leader-by-proxy. They get their God and I get to be supreme leader, imposing my will on everyone just because I can."

You can find an interview with the author of "Parenting Beyond Belief" here: http://infidelguy.libsyn.com/index.php?post_category=Interviews

I think it was cruel that my parents tried to sell me the idea of there existing a Santa Claus. In Sweden, the alleged Santa Claus actually walks into the house around 4 PM and delivers presents. I remember one particular year where someone who very obviously had a plastic Santa face. I pointed this out, but my parents were hasty to counter with that Santa Claus was wearing that mask because it was very cold, and he needed the mask to protect himself from cold, but looked just the same under the mask. I said that Santa Claus could take off his mask since it was warm in here, but that wasn't possible for some reason. What I felt then was genuine disbelief that my parents would try to tell me something that was obviously ridiculous.

Give children a lasting reason to behave morally than just "you won't get any presents otherwise".

Santa Claus is really just like any other religion, except parents tell children the truth, that there is no reason to believe in Santa Claus, when they grow up.

likewise. Learning was..the best feeling in the world, but now I regret it. Why? Everything that I've learned hasn't made me one bit happier in the long run. I don't care that oxygen has an electronegativity of 3.44 or that 99% of abdominal wounds during world war one were fatal. Everyone else is out making friends, making connections. Yesterday was the happiest day of my life. Me and a girl spent a day together, and we had a great time. She was genuinely glad that I was around, and I was euphorically happy. When I went home I fell into the usual self-loathing thought cycle, but something was different. For the first time in my life I could say "No, I'm not s**t, someone I care about cares about me". Interpersonal relationships are what let people evaluate themselves, give them self the ability "I am a nice guy", or "I think I'm worth liking". Of course, that was all just a mindfck as usual and the next day she goes off flirting with my best friend, but that's a different story.

What I'm trying to say is that knowledge is superficial, and that if letting kids believe in Santa or whatever makes them happy, do. The only thing that knowing otherwise will give them is the ability to say "Santa's not real", nothing else. It's a personal choice, but I believe that ignorance is bliss. Being an obssesive learner, I've pretty much ruined everything in life for myself, and my only advice to anyone is "don't think about life, just enjoy it".



I guessed the average age on this board is about 25, and most people live until 85. I know what I said sounds harsh, but it's true, in my opinion.

This is just my two cents, I hope I conveyed it in a coherent way, I usually don't I imagine knowledge has brought many people happiness, but I'm not one of them. I'm not some sort of philosophy spewing vending machine, but I think I'll post Kavanagh's Advent, it changed the way I think forever, and maybe it might do the same for you guys

Santa was actually invented by coke cola.

I don't believe you should deny the magic of santa like you say. Though I always remember being a bit confused about santa. Like when I went to see santa, where was the sled and raindeer when he arrived. Why was he wearing a fake bead. Also Santas breath smelt like alcohol.

My parrents told me it was santa, so I had to believe them. THEY LIED!! !!

Anyway I think the santa thing, their are four stages in life with Santa.

One is believing in Santa,
two reliasing that santa isn't real.
three dressing up as Santa
Four looking like and becoming thus becoming the image of Santa

No and I am none of the choices indicated.

Santa Clause is made up. Telling a kid he is real is deception.

ruveyn

I think it's good for a young kid's imagination. I mean by time they're 8 if they asked me if he's real I'd just flat out tell them he's a fake.

On the contrary; though, I do not wish to have children.

I never really believed in Santa. I was a pathological debunker as a little kid. My line of reasoning as a child went:
Adults seem not to believe in Santa.
Gifts appear at Christmas.
Since adults do not believe in Santa, they likely have a better, alternate explanation for the gifts.
This explanation is that they are responsible for the gifts.

Plus, every "Santa" I saw had an obvious fake beard. I mean, come on, if you're going to try and pull off a hoax, at least find a real man who can grow a beard to look the part.

I probably would cuz I'm so evil.....

It's pretty cute hear both my nieces and nephew talk about santa like he's real....I almost feel attempted but then again I shouldn't....or should I?

My sister would probably get angry at me in a jiff if they got their facts from "unreliable" sources.

I'd tell my kids there was a Santa, making them believe in him is a different issue. I'm with Orwell on this one, I never really believed in Santa. My parents asked me what I wanted, I told them, I got more or less what I asked for. I guess I intuitively applied Occam's razor to the situation and decided Santa was extraneous. I don't think my parents ever really tried to convince me, they just said it with a wink and a nudge and I caught on that they were joking pretty early. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Now that Jesus guy was a whole different story. They made me go to school on Sundays for years to convince me of that s**t! (sorry couldn't resist, but this is an atheist thread now isn't it?)