Palestinian "holocaust"

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The Israeli deputy defence minister said the stepped-up rocket fire would trigger what he called a "bigger holocaust" in the Hamas-controlled coastal strip.

Israeli air strikes have killed about 30 Palestinians, including six children in the past two days.
From BBCnews

Are we arrived to the point that the Israeli governement threatens to "holocaust" the Palestinians?
I am very detached from world news for various reasons. But this is a case in which I feel aroused and sick. I had to hide and flee during WW2 from the Germans, and now?

This is a tough topic... no matter what the response, it will piss people off.

The deputy defense minister should probably be fired for making such a statement.

I think the two sides hate each other so much that neither side really wants peace.

I still wonder how taking palestinian territory and giving it to the Jews after WWII can be justified. Why didn't we give them, say, Arizona?
Wasn't it obvious that doing this would result in "problems?"

But be of good cheer, George Bush leaves office in less than a year, and hopefully the world will be able to return to sanity after he's gone.

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I see I'm not the oldest WP member any more.

Have you ever written about your WWII experiences? I would love to read yours and others' stories. Perhaps such books would provide ammunition against Holocaust deniers. And we need a library of these stories, before they are lost forever.

I have written some pages about my experience of WW2 in my "In the bubble, Living with autism", published last September in Italy. I am trying to translate the whole thing in English, but,as I do that, I would like to change much. So it will take time.
Persecution of Jews in Italy has been relatively mild during the war. Jews have been largely hidden and protected by the Catholic church. I believe my gramma was hidden in a nunnery in northern Italy. In a sense the worst period was that of the beginning of the "laws about race" in 1938, promulgated by the regime in a country who has never known modern antisemitism.

I agree that this is a tough topic and I would like to avoid overheated discussions, where each one repeats propaganda themes.
Paradoxically the parties more favorable to Israeli politics in Italy are the Neofascists and the bushian right.
And that's it I hope,as much as I am concerned, on this subject.

From "The Times" of London: "An Israeli minister gave warning today that the army may unleash a “holocaust” on the Gaza Strip if Islamists there do not end their daily barrages of home-made Qassam rockets... The use of the term "holocaust” is usually restricted to descriptions of the Nazi genocide of the Jews in Europe in the Second World War, and many Israelis resent its use in any other context. "

Hamas-caused Hamas-cide

To call an event a genocide is a very serious matter, and the evidence does not support this.

Hamas uses subversive violent tactics as well as Palestinian pawns to shift responsibility from its evil organized criminal activists to innocent civilians.

Hamas murderers hide like cockroaches in the cracks. They are linked to Osama bin Laden and are the terror catalysts in the Middle East and in countries like Pakistan. They even masquerade as Palestinians, or at least hide in their homes.
Palestinians are the dupes here, and then they are the victims of Israeli defense.

A vicious circle and needless tragic deaths, yes. But a genocide, no.

The Jews have a historic right to the land, you can't dig anywhere without finding truckloads of Jewish history in Israel.

I'm sick of hearing about "poor Palestinians" such a country and a people never existed. the fact is they fired over 80 Kassam and Katusha (much more powerful and long range Russian made rockets) into Sderot and Ashkalon.

The fact is that there are no "moderates" Hamas wants nothing but war and wont negotiate with Israel and break agreements later out of principle.

Fatah will make deals and break them in order to weaken Israel.

thats the only difference. Abbas even admits this in the Arabic press.

They indoctrinate their children on hate in the PA on a steady diet of anti-semitisim.

but yet It's those evil satanic Jews that are the problem?!? what total BS. Israel can bend over backwards kissing everyones ass and they still get painted as the bad guy. but Palestinians can kill as many Jews as they want and the World will just sit back and clap and cheer.

no the real Genocide is the "Peace process" which has the real aim of wiping Israel off the map. and without a state of Israel Holocaust II (which I beleive is comming soon based on the incredible rise of anti-semitisim ) can start in earnest and the Jews will have nowhere to run to. There is already a Palestine its called Jordan. and if they don't like Jordan theres plenty of other arab countries to go to.

of course no arab countries will take them for two reasons. First they are so radical they don't even want them in the most fundamentalist Islamic countries. and second the fact is that the arab states are using the Palestinians to weaken and destroy Israel so of course they wont take them.

Meir Kahane was right but no one listened to him, instead they labeled him a terrorist and a racist . I would challenge anyone to listen to his speaches online. or to take a serious look at http://www.arutzsheva.com instead of the BS the BBC spews out daily.


If the united states were attacked in the same way as Israel forma neighboring country like cuba, or a non arab town in america got hit with rockets from an all arab town in america (where non muslims cant even go without being killed, yes this is a reality in Israel) do you think the news would be defending the people that were attacking us with home made rockets that have mortar shells on the ends of them that kill and maim our citizens? NO! they would be screaming for them to be taken out so that nobody would get hurt again. but if tiny Israel defends itself and beleive me they arent doing nearly enough to really stop the attacks. they get called nazis.

It seems the war on terror is ok in Iraq where we never should have gone. but fight real terrorists in the Palestinian authority and suddenly the war on terror doesn't even exist. in fact the US gladly gives arms and training and money to Fatah which has a terrorist wing called the Al-Aska Martyr Bridages which have commited and still continue to commit the most Suicide bombing attacks on Israel,and yes Fatah launches missles onto Israel too. they even boasted about training Hamas recently in the arabic press.

The war on terror is a total lie and the united states call of a Palestinian state is the proof of that lie. lets call it what it really is: The establishment of a terrorist state in the heart of Israel to harrass, kill and maim every Jew in Israel and when the land is given to the PA they will use ti to reach all of Israel with their rockets and no-one will be safe at least no Jews will be safe that is but I guess nobody gives a s**t about Jews at all.

There has been an illusion here to the idea that the nation of Israel is occupying Palestinian land. This is plain and simple, a misconception and a falsehood spread by Islamics and Islamic supported liberal media. I was asked to address this issue in another forum. the following is a statement that was made, then my response to it:
"The same document that created the state of Israel in 48' also mandated the state of Palestine. That's a fact that can't be argued."

I agree it was resolution 181, however that state was never established because the Palestinians would not accept the offered land. That document was meant to create a Palestinian state and we in Israel have no problem with that.The Palestinians were first offered statehood in the 30's. The Peel Commission, which was set up by the British following the 1936 Arab revolt, recommended a partition plan for a Jewish and Arab state. The Jewish state was to be only the fraction of the size that would later be offered to the Jews in 1947 and the Arab state much bigger than what would later be offered in 1947, and probably the best deal the Arabs on that land were ever going to get. The Zionist leadership, although disappointed at the small portion of land, reluctantly accepted the plan, and effectively accepted the Arabs owning the large majority of Palestine. The Arabs, however, unequivocally rejected this plan even though it would have created an enormous Arab state.

Shortly after world war 2, the U.N. passed Resolution 181, which was a legally binding partition that called for the creation of a Jewish and Arab state in Palestine. Under the partition the Jews were given 55% of Palestine, a much bigger portion than what was offered to them by the Peel Commission, and the Arabs were given 45% of Palestine which, although was still a significant portion of the land, was much less than they could have gotten had they accepted the Peel Commission's partition. The Zionist leadership accepted this partition (effectively recognizing the right of an Arab Palestinian state to exist on the other 45% of the land) and, like 10 years earlier, the Arabs flatly rejected the partition that was intended to create their own state, and launched a full-scale war against Israel with the hope of conquering all of Palestine. 60 years and 3 generations later, this hope of the Palestinians to destroy Israel is still alive and well.

Another thing that should pointed out is that this land was not just a country called Palestine, but rather an area that consisted of peices of land taken from the surronding countries. It wasn't a nice garden paradise where a bunch of people called Palestinians lived in peace. The Israelis turned it into a garden paradise, through hard work and the shedding of much Israeli blood. The Temple mount is just that no matter how much the Arabs try to destroy any evidence to that fact.

Lessons of history topic

Thanks for the history lesson, Chaver.

Shalom. Now I have more research.

I didn't want to raise the "Palestinian question" here knowing how much it's dominated by strong feelings, but I don't want to dodge the fact that I am strongly convinced of the suicidal nature of the Israeli policy. Suicidal for the Israeli in the long term, and suicidal for the western countries which have been unable during more tha half a century to have some vision and some determination in outlining and enforcing some decent plan for the Middle East.

Destructive arguments topic

I am no moderator, but I am going to moderate here.

This topic is degenerating into two sides that are not even agreeing to disagree--they are not even starting from the same premise.

There is only anger here. And it is non-productive.

I think it's a fair topic for discussion, as long as people remain civil. Just because a topic is very controversial doesn't mean it should be swept under the carpet and forgotten. In fact, it is only by discussioon of these topics that they have a chance to be resolved.

But it is very easy to become angry and violate the forum's rules. If that is what anyone plans to do, please go post your venom somewhere else. I'm not interested.

Thank you, and I agree with ED there were people living there and many were Jews, my own family since about 1400.