just curious but why is being a Muslim seen as being...

Post Reply New Topic

It all depends on who you consider to be a true mujahideen or shahuda. However, there has been great damage done by one group: the Salafiyyun. They force the people to follow their own interpretation, destroying everything they consider going against their practice, and consider only Wahhab Sunni Islam to be true.

I've already made it quite clear in the past that there's massive opposition to salafi thought throughout the Muslim world, even in the KSA. They're the westboro baptist version of Islam, with the difference that their thought is established officially by a monarchy. Salifism is practised by very few, there are more Muslims in China (who follow the Hanafi school and make up less than 2% of the population) than in Saudi Arabia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... tion3b.JPG

Total estimated Muslim population: 1.2 - 1.8 billion (The Vatican estimates 19% of the world population is Muslim and 17% Catholic).

Total population of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia: 27,601,038 (CIA World Factbook)

Not all the Saudis are Salafi but they have been integral in spreading their doctrines to the Kosovar, Chechen, and Pashtun fighters. Who are filling up most of the ranks in Islamic militancy?? It sure as hell isn't people inspired by Rumi.

One good answer to that is that the founder of the whirling dervishes,
unlike the founder of Salafism, never had a vision of a super-state
that would unite the community of the faithful and convert the world
to Islam [a vision, alas, that infects/infests conservative evangelical
Christianity (with the necessary changes, of course) even as we write
this].

I assumed that independence was/is the goal of Kosovar, Chechen, and Pashtun (against the Soviets) fighters. I didn't know Salafi thought had anything to do with it.

I don't care what faith someone is. If you're going to be living in america, I would expect you to be patriotic (and not in the 9-11 sense, just don't fly your home countries' flag above the american one and stuff like that).

It p*sses me off to no end when people fly their home countries' flag above the american one on american soil, and they claim to be americans(this has nothing to do with muslims, though).

But... I don't mean that you have to turn against your home country when you become american.

Thats why its so hard on the muslims in this country, imo... we're fighting terrorist groups in their home countries (home country being the one that you were born and/or raised in).

I can understand why they would be torn about this issue. They most likely have friends and family living there (in the middle east) and yet they now live in america.

I was on a religion/philosophy forum for quite a while. Never once did I hear(see) a muslim there condemn muslim terrorism.
The statements on that matter were always sidestepped or met with a very vague excuse.

I would probably be a little more helpful to anyone moving to this country or any other if they would assimilate a little more, become more involved. Instead of screaming about hate crimes when someone looks at them wrong, they could try to be friendlier (mention that because something in this area happened a while back with someone screaming about a nonsense hate crime). Instead of creating their own little towns within Great Britain and refusing the police entrance they could embrace their new country.

I've heard this is against their religious doctrines though, assimilating with their new country (if its not, please tell me).

And I'm not talking about not wearing hijabs or anything, their faith, its a free country and they can wear whatever they want.

I don't know how you could be part of a country and embrace the culture though, if you aren't allowed to assimilate.

I just wish people would be a little more understanding about the country they're living in.

I understand both sides of the issue, so I'm sorry if that comes off sounding mean or hateful, I don't mean it to be.

What I mean is, if someone is coming here because they want religious freedom then thats fine. If they're coming here because their country has become a war zone, they can be granted refugee status. But if they're coming here because they want free benefits and want to live in america and become and american citizen without actually being american, then thats a problem, its almost like being an illegal alien except that you're in someones record book.
Its just giving lip service. "Verbal expression of agreement or allegiance, unsupported by real conviction or action; hypocritical respect".

well,,,there's usages about our flag, in the US at least (heck, they'll complain if you fly a State flag above an American...

I think there's a lot of Americans that publicly don't have a problem with Islam. Don't know the first thing about it, just don't know how to deal with a 'living' religion (by this, I mean that you do things in you life that conform to observances, like following the hadith/haram rules, despite whatever everyone else around you does). Privately, they don't understand it, don't really want to deal with it, but just sorta hope that we can get along. They 'know' that the Muslims are 'wrong' when it comes to religion, but that's their own affair.

I'm hoping (and thinking) that a lot of Muslims think the same thing, just in the other direction. The extremists are very opposed to the idea of co-existence and accomodation. And they give everyone around them untold grief. I'm sure I'm not the only Christian who was embarrassed to hear that general awhile back say "my God is stronger than your God!"...uh...s'cuse me...same God, y'know...

These are lyrics to a song from the musical "South Pacific"
Theyre just as true today as they were then...maybe more so.

You've Got to be Carefully Taught
Rodgers & Hammerstein

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people's whose eyes are oddly made
And people's whose skin is a different shade
You've got to be carefully taught.

You have to be taught to hate and fear
You have to be taught from year to year
It has to be drummed in your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late
Before you are six or seven or eight
To hate all the people your relatives hate
You've got to be carefully taught

You've got to be carefully taught

I've always felt that if you put a bunch of kids together & keep them away from the grown-ups, they'll get along fine.

Children can't parent themselves or each other.

Agnosticism?

Simply because one doesn't agree does not make them a troll.


M.

What are you talking about?
He's guilty of hyperbole, but not bigotry.

Even though I'm sure there are many patriotic muslims they are seen as unpatriotic because most muslim countries are very anti-western.

The way I see it, Islam's current period is relatable to Christianity during the dark ages, except Islam is surrounded by a period of enlightenment. When religion is surrounded by enlightenment, it does what it does best: Isolate itself, consolidate itself, and radicalize its followers. Hear no evil, see no evil, and so on. All true Muslims are unpatriotic, because it is their divine duty to enslave, convert, or kill the kuffar; the disbelievers. The people who call Muslims unpatriotic today are mostly racists and xenophobes indeed. The accusation is virtually never true, because pretty much all Muslims are fakes, like the Christians. Something tells me Jesus wouldn't like America's beloved patriotism, or the injustice of their society. Then again, "I came not to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34.

Nothing wrong with being muslim

These gulf states dont count. They have windfall economies based on oil.
That isnt real development (although it they play thier cards right it could lead to sustainable industrialization). What does count is Malaysia- a southeast asian nation with a dynamic industrializing economy which happens to be muslim. And they have the world' s tallest skyscraper ( or its in the top five).

[quote="AspE"]There is no logic to it. Muslim have a bad reputation, we are supposed to hate them. It's irrational and xenophobic, although there are many US Muslims and even one Muslim congressman. Islam is no more violent and stupid than the other religions... well, maybe a little more violent.

A little more violent? There is hardly a day that passes when an enthusiastic Muslim does not blow himself and his enemies to smithereens with an explosive pack. A quick way to eternal life and getting laid by 72 gorgeous virgins. In societies where access to women is highly restricted the temptation for a young man with his hormones boiling over to blow himself up in order to get laid is considerable. 99.9 percent of the suicide martyrs are young males. That is no coincidence.

The explosion of the suicide-martyr explosive pack and the I.E.D. is the new Muslim call to prayer.

ruveyn