British Hacker using Aspergers as a defence

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ShawnWilliam
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29 Aug 2008, 2:57 pm

ascan wrote:

SpiceWolf wrote:

...He was an Englishman, who broke English laws, on English soil, so he should be tried by English law, except he isn't, he is being shipped to a country he is not a citizen of, on whose soil he has never set foot, and being tried under a foreign justice system.

The stink about this case is precisely that he is NOT answering to the same law his peers do.

His action may have been against US law, but he's not a US citizen, and he didn't commit it on US soil. So tough cookies.
It WAS however also against English law, and for that he should be tried, in England, before an English court.

L.

Well said. Gordon Brown has got his nose as far up the arse of Bush as that bastard Blair, and that's the only reason the guy is being made a scapegaoat for the incompetence of the Yanks, and is being sent to the US where he will be coerced into a guilty plea by their morally-bankrupt plea bargain system. They've already done that with a bunch of British bankers, and who knows it could be any other British citizen next. I think any Yank would be wise not to take a visit to our country in the near future, because as far as some of us are concerned they're just not welcome if their government carry on sticking their nose into our business this way.

Dogbrain wrote:

I don't have a security fence around my entire yard. People who enter my yard without permission are still trespassing...

And in English law trespass is a civil matter, not a criminal offence, so your ignorance has done well to further expand the point being made. Of course, it's understandable a US citizen not having a bloody clue about a place where their government is causing trouble.

You know, I was very pro-US a few years ago, but now I can actually understand why a large part of the world thinks of you as the enemy.

It's because of how well their government is at brainwashing them.. and how evil the government is in general.. But Britain is in strong ties with the US, so dont be fooled by them either..

Warsie
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29 Aug 2008, 3:04 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Hacker nerds should answer to the same law everyone else does.

yes they should, given they invent those systems inthe first place. Same logic applies to hackers in general.

As much as I'd like to kick the ass/f**k up some trolls and d-bags on the internet I'd rather not be able to arrest them. If I could, I'd prefer street justice and tracign their IPs and getting it from their ISPs in some way..

EDIT: article

Quote:

Long before the medical ruling, Mr. McKinnon and his lawyers have said that he meant no harm by hacking into nearly 100 United States government networks between 2001 and 2002. While prosecutors agree that he was simply searching for U.F.O.’s and other government secrets, they also said that Mr. McKinnon temporarily disabled crucial national security systems as the nation was wary of follow-up attacks to 9/11.

Maybe the government should start releasing all the secret s**t they still have surrounding Area 51 and deal with those UFO discloruse/MUFON people...but nooo; spend half the non-discretionary federal budget on military s**t and all the black budgets..

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Last edited by Warsie on 29 Aug 2008, 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Warsie
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29 Aug 2008, 3:07 pm

slowmutant wrote:

So in other words, no accountability at all. Brilliant. :roll:

yes; don't leave networks unsecured and expect no one to peek at them.

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Warsie
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29 Aug 2008, 3:10 pm

slowmutant wrote:

He was hacking US government networks "just to find some photos," huh? Around the time of the WTC attacks, no less?

Do you understand the implications of all this? If his wrist gets slapped, what will that say to all the other would-be hackers out there? No, this guy needs to be made into an example for others. No namby-pamby ASD excuses. I can understand not wanting to go to prison, but I also understand the priniciple of not doing the crime if you're too namby-pamby to do the time.

I don't even consider myself a 'hacker' but lol. Remember this 80s Manifesto? BS "examples" DO NOT WORK.

Quote:

This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.

Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.

I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike.

the US Federal Gov tried this in the 1980s...and IT DID NOT STOP THEM
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/manifesto.html

It doesn't work for Child Porn, it doesn't work for bootlegging things, an it doesn't work for hacking. You can find all three easily via internet; hidden, or P2P, or 'normal'.

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Last edited by Warsie on 29 Aug 2008, 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Warsie
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29 Aug 2008, 3:13 pm

Dogbrain wrote:

I don't have a security fence around my entire yard. People who enter my yard without permission are still trespassing.

It's the internet, a different dimension and those damned "real-life" laws should STAY AWAY from the inernet.

Besides, it provides a good defense as you do not know exactly where one fence ends and another begins, balls falling into that yard, etc.

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slowmutant
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29 Aug 2008, 5:00 pm

Quote:

I think any Yank would be wise not to take a visit to our country in the near future, because as far as some of us are concerned they're just not welcome if their government carry on sticking their nose into our business this way.

You know he hacked into American military computers, right? If anything, the Brit hacker stuck his nose into America's business. That's one hell of a selective memory you've got there, slick.

jrknothead
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29 Aug 2008, 6:08 pm

Warsie wrote:

It doesn't work for Child Porn, it doesn't work for bootlegging things, an it doesn't work for hacking. You can find all three easily via internet; hidden, or P2P, or 'normal'.

I'm curious as to how you have firsthand knowledge of the availability of child porn...

psych
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29 Aug 2008, 8:53 pm

Dogbrain wrote:

psych wrote:

From what ive read, he was only investigating a suspected coverup of UFO evidence. by having a peek at totally unsecured networks. That doesnt strike me as wrong.

I don't have a security fence around my entire yard. People who enter my yard without permission are still trespassing.

what about if they look in your yard with photographic equipment from afar, and take recordings?

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29 Aug 2008, 10:19 pm

jrknothead wrote:

I'm curious as to how you have firsthand knowledge of the availability of child porn...

My answer when people wonder "why do you know this about xyz" is...

because I'm 1337 like that

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Last edited by Warsie on 29 Aug 2008, 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
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29 Aug 2008, 10:25 pm

If privacy is so grossly overrated ... who wants a tap on their phone?! No, you'll clamour for your own privacy while you go online and gleefully invade the privacy of others. Were it that our hacker hero had federal agents snooping around on his hard drive without notice or consent ... oh how you'd cry foul. You'd all scream blue bloody murder.

Warsie
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29 Aug 2008, 10:27 pm

slowmutant wrote:

If privacy is so grossly overrated ... who wants a tap on their phone?!

No, you'll clamour for your own privacy while you go online and gleefully invade the privacy of others. Were it that our hacker hero had federal agents snooping around on his hard drive without notice or consent ... oh how you'd cry foul. You'd all scream blue bloody murder.

Federal Agents enforce BS laws that politicans (who either are that biased or pander to the majority's biases and social stigmas) make up (often violating the same BS laws they make up-see Foley). I don't want a group that can legitimately deprive me of my possessions, freedom, social status and life looking around my stuff.

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Last edited by Warsie on 29 Aug 2008, 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
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29 Aug 2008, 10:30 pm

Warsie wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

If privacy is so grossly overrated ... who wants a tap on their phone?!

Federal Agents enforce BS laws that jack-ass politicans make up (often violating the same BS laws they make up-see Foley). I don't want a group that can legitimately deprive me of my possessions, freedom, social status and life looking around my stuff.

So privacy is a legitimate concern after all ... as long as it's your privacy and not someone else's, eh Warsie?

Warsie
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29 Aug 2008, 10:33 pm

slowmutant wrote:

So privacy is a legitimate concern after all ... as long as it's your privacy and not someone else's, eh Warsie?

My post was saying I don't trust the government with those info given what they have done with it in the past. And the same applies to whoever the government is snooping on.

Good thing for P2P, Tor, the Freenet/Darknet and other Proxy systems.

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ascan
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30 Aug 2008, 10:15 am

slowmutant wrote:

...You know he hacked into American military computers, right? If anything, the Brit hacker stuck his nose into America's business. That's one hell of a selective memory you've got there, slick.

He did so from the UK, and should be subject to British justice. Moreover, the reason he is being sent to the US is because of an extradition treaty between the US and UK that is so very obviously biased in favour of the US, that the US government must have used some form of coercion in order to get our government to agree to it -- in other words sticking their nose into our business. Of course, our government being about as spineless as your average slug, and being infatuated with their association with the Yank military hegemony, probably didn't need much persuading, but still the underlying cause is the same -- US interference.

slowmutant wrote:

...No, you'll clamour for your own privacy while you go online and gleefully invade the privacy of others. Were it that our hacker hero had federal agents snooping around on his hard drive without notice or consent ... oh how you'd cry foul..

The US government directly or indirectly monitors UK electronic communications -- internet, cell phones, and landlines. What redress do we have in that regard?

slowmutant
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30 Aug 2008, 10:24 am

Let's just see how this plays out.

Juniperberrygirl
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30 Aug 2008, 4:28 pm

He should be tried in England. He is English and did what he did in England.

I'm concerned. If in the U. S. he could be put into all sorts of danger. There are many things that a paranoid government could do to a person for the idea of protection of themselves. Fear can breed bad judgement.

I believe he should be judged by his own countrys laws and what they would impose on him.

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