Infrastructure improvements and jobs in America?

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Lizst
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27 Jul 2011, 12:50 am

"Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society." (<-- usually attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes)

California used to have the best schools in the country, Detroit used to be livable and not just boarded up, Chicago used to have roads instead of endlessly long stretches of dangerously deep potholes, and Minnesota used to have bridges that actually held up when one drove over them.

In the 1950s, when tax rates were very high, instead of reaping the profits at every opportunity, the rich put that money back into the business. So companies expanded gradually, predictably, thoughtfully, almost in an "organic" kind of way, and more people were hired into good, often lifelong jobs.

And those high taxes, in turn, were used for some of those infrastructure issues on my short, just-off-the-top-of-my-head list up there. It was during that period that the interstate highway system was developed, state university systems grew....

And before that, FDR took the reins during the depths of the depression, created jobs by focusing on infrastructure that's still around today, but in need of repair....
. Our recent stimulus funds created some jobs short-term, but funding wasn't large enough to really do all that's needed in development, repair, and putting people to work. And now one group of politicians is busy shredding every government program they can get their hands on; they admitted as much a while back; they want to "shrink government so it's small enough to then drown it in the bathtub"!

The rich might do well to remember what Abe Lincoln said; "Labor precedes capital". Even the so-called "Robber barons" of the early 20th century didn't build their fortunes alone, though it seems they acted as if they did. And this current crop of Pols is being just as arrogant today.


The Scandinavian countries have some of the highest tax rates in the world. But they have health care they can count on, where doctors and patients communicate and persnickety pencil-pushers don't make life and death decisions based on the bottom line. And they have good jobs with paid vacations and a living wage, and transportation systems that work reliably, and free education and a well-educated population.
And recent surveys suggest it's Scandinavians who generally rate highest on questions about happiness and contentment.

This country has codified "the pursuit of happiness", in fact turned it into a cliche... but our system now seems to make that more and more impossible for even middle-class folks to achieve... while those northerly countries "put their money where their mouth is"; they seem to realize that we're all in this together.

During this very noisy political period (our pols currently screamin' at each other a la budget blues), maybe we could use a reminder; a society worth living in takes compassion, conscience, and commons sense, and a sense of shared responsibility.



Or, another way to put it:
"To say my fate is not tied to your fate is like saying 'Your end of the boat is sinking.' " -- Hugh Downs
.


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Kraichgauer
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27 Jul 2011, 1:04 am

Lizst wrote:
"Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society." (<-- usually attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes)

California used to have the best schools in the country, Detroit used to be livable and not just boarded up, Chicago used to have roads instead of endlessly long stretches of dangerously deep potholes, and Minnesota used to have bridges that actually held up when one drove over them.

In the 1950s, when tax rates were very high, instead of reaping the profits at every opportunity, the rich put that money back into the business. So companies expanded gradually, predictably, thoughtfully, almost in an "organic" kind of way, and more people were hired into good, often lifelong jobs.

And those high taxes, in turn, were used for some of those infrastructure issues on my short, just-off-the-top-of-my-head list up there. It was during that period that the interstate highway system was developed, state university systems grew....

And before that, FDR took the reins during the depths of the depression, created jobs by focusing on infrastructure that's still around today, but in need of repair....
. Our recent stimulus funds created some jobs short-term, but funding wasn't large enough to really do all that's needed in development, repair, and putting people to work. And now one group of politicians is busy shredding every government program they can get their hands on; they admitted as much a while back; they want to "shrink government so it's small enough to then drown it in the bathtub"!

The rich might do well to remember what Abe Lincoln said; "Labor precedes capital". Even the so-called "Robber barons" of the early 20th century didn't build their fortunes alone, though it seems they acted as if they did. And this current crop of Pols is being just as arrogant today.


The Scandinavian countries have some of the highest tax rates in the world. But they have health care they can count on, where doctors and patients communicate and persnickety pencil-pushers don't make life and death decisions based on the bottom line. And they have good jobs with paid vacations and a living wage, and transportation systems that work reliably, and free education and a well-educated population.
And recent surveys suggest it's Scandinavians who generally rate highest on questions about happiness and contentment.

This country has codified "the pursuit of happiness", in fact turned it into a cliche... but our system now seems to make that more and more impossible for even middle-class folks to achieve... while those northerly countries "put their money where their mouth is"; they seem to realize that we're all in this together.

During this very noisy political period (our pols currently screamin' at each other a la budget blues), maybe we could use a reminder; a society worth living in takes compassion, conscience, and commons sense, and a sense of shared responsibility.



Or, another way to put it:
"To say my fate is not tied to your fate is like saying 'Your end of the boat is sinking.' " -- Hugh Downs
.


Well said.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Jul 2011, 12:55 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I admit, I shouldn't have made such a sweeping, blanket statement.
But I was actually talking about how many of the super wealthy have not been putting back into the economy by hiring more people in this country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Because they are afraid that Obama will suddenly change the rules and take away their rights as investors like he did to the Chrysler Bond Holders.


Or maybe they've just decided there are greener pastures elsewhere, regardless of who's president, and have no real sense of loyalty and patriotism anymore.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Would you invest in a place where a contract isn't worth the paper it is printed on? If so, you are a complete idiot.


I'd invest in my own country. So I guess my patriotism and love of country makes me an idiot.
If lower class Americans are expected to shed their blood for America, then the rich shouldn't have to much of a problem spending a little money for her.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You're an idiot because you trust the crooks in government, whom have demonstrated rather frequently that the money isn't going to go where they promise you. This has nothing to do with love of country.



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28 Jul 2011, 1:08 am

The real crooks are the ones who are taking their tax breaks, then going over seas to invest. The fact of the matter is, the super wealthy in this country often have no loyalty to this country. They have more in common with other members of the international upper class, whether that upper class is in Saudi Arabia, Britain, China, etc., than they do with peons like you and me.
And yes, my desire to see Americans prosper from the growth of business here is out of love of country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Jul 2011, 10:20 am

Lizst wrote:
Or, another way to put it:
"To say my fate is not tied to your fate is like saying 'Your end of the boat is sinking.' " -- Hugh Downs.


^ Love this. You cannot leave the "U" out of USA. The poor affect the rich and vice versa.

Our economy is consumer based. More poverty = less consumerism which drops revenue and hurts everyone.

Costs are also shared. Some people don't like their tax dollars going towards healthcare and education, but they fail to realize that these costs are their burdens regardless of tax. An uninsured illness costs the hospital which then in turn must either raise prices or beg for funding. An uneducated population results in less innovation and less opportunity as the brightest in the world will look elsewhere for leaders and employees.



David23
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29 Jul 2011, 10:57 am

Honestly, I didn't watch the video :lol: But I will say: As long as the water mains in NYC are made of wood, Bridges (including on major Interstates) are failing out of disrepair and I can't leave my neighbor hood without hitting a huge pothole, I want some improvements.

Infrastructure improvements need to be a priority, and some absolutely must be done. Just look at the facts. (I'm vague because I can't remember exact details) Over half the bridges in the USA need repaired or replaced. Sewers are backing up into peoples houses because local plants can't handle it. And not even 4 years ago we had the 8 lane Interstate 35 Highway bridge collapse into the Mississippi river during Rush Hour.

People are getting sick and even dying because of incidents related to faulty infrastructure, failure to repair things, inspections done incorrectly, etc. And just imagine all the ones you don't hear about.

But there's tons of stuff we're worrying about right now so these thing will have to wait :?

Man, I am on a ranting roll lately :oops:


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number5
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29 Jul 2011, 11:21 am

David23 wrote:
Honestly, I didn't watch the video :lol: But I will say: As long as the water mains in NYC are made of wood, Bridges (including on major Interstates) are failing out of disrepair and I can't leave my neighbor hood without hitting a huge pothole, I want some improvements.

Infrastructure improvements need to be a priority, and some absolutely must be done. Just look at the facts. (I'm vague because I can't remember exact details) Over half the bridges in the USA need repaired or replaced. Sewers are backing up into peoples houses because local plants can't handle it. And not even 4 years ago we had the 8 lane Interstate 35 Highway bridge collapse into the Mississippi river during Rush Hour.

People are getting sick and even dying because of incidents related to faulty infrastructure, failure to repair things, inspections done incorrectly, etc. And just imagine all the ones you don't hear about.

But there's tons of stuff we're worrying about right now so these thing will have to wait :?

Man, I am on a ranting roll lately :oops:


Agreed. It's like any other form of maintenance. You can fix the crack in the foundation now, or you can put it off and be forced to replace the whole thing - at a dramatically higher cost. We have people who need jobs. We have plenty of work to do. It seems like a no-brainer, but a few loudmouths don't want their pockets picked by Uncle Sam to pay for the needed work.



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29 Jul 2011, 2:26 pm

number5 wrote:
David23 wrote:
Honestly, I didn't watch the video :lol: But I will say: As long as the water mains in NYC are made of wood, Bridges (including on major Interstates) are failing out of disrepair and I can't leave my neighbor hood without hitting a huge pothole, I want some improvements.

Infrastructure improvements need to be a priority, and some absolutely must be done. Just look at the facts. (I'm vague because I can't remember exact details) Over half the bridges in the USA need repaired or replaced. Sewers are backing up into peoples houses because local plants can't handle it. And not even 4 years ago we had the 8 lane Interstate 35 Highway bridge collapse into the Mississippi river during Rush Hour.

People are getting sick and even dying because of incidents related to faulty infrastructure, failure to repair things, inspections done incorrectly, etc. And just imagine all the ones you don't hear about.

But there's tons of stuff we're worrying about right now so these thing will have to wait :?

Man, I am on a ranting roll lately :oops:


Agreed. It's like any other form of maintenance. You can fix the crack in the foundation now, or you can put it off and be forced to replace the whole thing - at a dramatically higher cost. We have people who need jobs. We have plenty of work to do. It seems like a no-brainer, but a few loudmouths don't want their pockets picked by Uncle Sam to pay for the needed work.


Then those same loudmouths should be forced to take a dip in said burst water main, or be made to drive over those bridges in disrepair over and over till collapse. Maybe then, they'll understand that there are some things that the federal government can and should do, which private business can't... or won't.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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31 Jul 2011, 2:01 pm

Seems like the only stuff being built in the U.S. by Amerrrrrrrrrrricans is for the military. :lol:



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02 Aug 2011, 3:49 pm

here's something disturbing. even Chinese labor costs too much now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... obots.html

what's going to happen when all these customer/consumers are no longer able to purchase without a job?

eventually these robots will create a mostly self supporting system where they don't need humans to repair them, only design them, and eventually not even design them. what happens then?



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02 Aug 2011, 5:19 pm

oldmantime wrote:
here's something disturbing. even Chinese labor costs too much now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... obots.html

what's going to happen when all these customer/consumers are no longer able to purchase without a job?

eventually these robots will create a mostly self supporting system where they don't need humans to repair them, only design them, and eventually not even design them. what happens then?


Then a new paradigm will be formulated. The old paradigm of buying goods and services with wages earned will fall by the wayside. We are still formulating economics in terms of scarcity. A revision will be forthcoming.

ruveyn