NY Times: People with autism fear stigma after Newtown

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As per the article I mentioned, which goes along the lines of most clinical ones I've read (from Hans to Gillberg/Wing); it's hard to go against these people who define the label we're given (in addition to other researchers like Baron-Cohen), and when they say we don't have empathy (though sympathy and compassion are intact), you have to refer to these. There's hardly any clinical ones pointing to the fact that we do (other than ones like the one prior where it's splitting empathy into two parts and neglecting sympathy entirely).

I'm wondering where the actual split of empathy [into two parts] came from however; I've never run into it in my readings of the early literature. I think it may have come from Baron-Cohen himself (even though his latest book says we have zero degrees of empathy and the reason why we're not like psychopaths and narcissists is because we have a highly exact and systematizing brain; which might actually be a part of it). I find it odd personally, as sympathy can adequately describe affective empathy.

So, technically, we don't have "empathy", even though there is a study saying we have "empathy", though it's defining it as only part of what empathy entails (Merriam-Webster dictionary, and I'm sure other dictionaries are the same), or what is better described as sympathy.

It'd be nice if researchers used the same definitions and meanings, really.

Good news, everyone!

I've only watched 2 news reports today, but BOTH were detailed in their discussion of Aspergers and Autism, not condemning it in the least - being very specific that people with Aspergers are no more prone to violence than anyone else, and the major difference is their lessened ability to notice the unspoken social communication and "reading faces" in others.

Instead of just "watching them" for potential danger, he recommended forming relationships with them in order to understand them better, etc.

Great reports!

You Americans still getting deflection, blame and hate in the news?

Dude where are you living?? Maybe I can convince Hubby to expat to where-ever you are...

I haven't seen the news. Can't take any more. Every time I see those kids' faces, I put my kids' faces on them and end up either cuddling kids or chain smoking. Poor beautiful things. Their poor families. No more news for me, man.

I figure it will get better. Talking heads' bosses will be afraid of getting sued. People will get distracted by something else. Fiscal cliff, Mayan apocalypse, something.

I'll still be walking on eggshells for a few months; the dangerous thoughlessness of the sheeple still makes me sick.

But-- that's life.

This is what I've been trying to tell you. It's not hard if you can bring yourself to realize they don't necessarily define it.

DSM defines it. And DSM doesn't agree (to a tee) with what you're telling us they're saying. They may very well be the pioneers of these diagnoses. But they don't write the rules for advancements made on there work by others who follow.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs wrote the rules for personal computers for a long time, but these days, other companies are smashing those rules to a pulp. The only reason Microsoft and Apple are still in business is because they've adapted to new thinking.

Same thing happens in psychology, but there are still some pioneers out there that may be stuck in their own thinking. Sometimes I wonder if some of them are a little autistic.

What I've been trying to explain to you (particularly the part about experts not exercising empathy toward us and our thinking), is not new thinking, but is only barely beginning to really be talked about more boldly. Sometimes I wonder if these old timers have squelched such talk. Maybe not even purposefully. Ego can be so deceitful sometimes, it even fools its owners.

I remember reading an article linking adolescents comitting this types of frenzy crimes and anti depression medication...I'd be interested to kow if this guy was under that type of medication...

Anti depressants can be the worse drugs on earth for some.

Whose to say the populus at large is normal and we are not, what if its US who are normal and they are not. Corrupted by Media, speculation, rumors and socially spun stigmas. Since we are technically loners (under the main stream concept of AS) then we are immune to that are we not? Granted we play games (violent or otherwise) but other than that what other social things do we expeirence other than this site and maybe Facebook? Nothing. So whose to say we are not the pure normal human and they are the weird. They are the impretionable human who fears what it doesn't understand. Adam was evil, period and nothing else. This is why I believe we are nothing like him....

1. We have higher I.Q. then our peers and our vocabulary and academea are also really good compared to "normal kids" A person who takes anothers life clearly doesn't

2. We learn fast and have the ability to shut out societies, unwanted tendencies since we tend to live and think as an individual not as part of the group. Hence we think for ourselves and we know who we are inside, and not listen to outside influences. Adam did not.

3. We love and we care like the "Normals" and most of us older young adults have girlfriends or boyfriends (depending on gender), or desire to have them. Autism gives us the ability to explore where as the Normals do not and just follow the herd. We may keep it closer to the chest than the normals but still have them and in world where the Internet exists it may be a good thing instead of a bad thing. Adam did not.

4. How many of you with autism have really exceptional or sensative hearing? Or eyesight? I do, i care hear really well and i think its more of a good than a bad. You can listen and pick out certain things and focus on them. That is no hinderence don't you think. I know im not the only one who has it. Adam may have had a "no pain" thing but we are not immune to pain physically or emotionally.

5. We embody the American Spirit......(if your and American that is). We are individually motivated, schollars, who have not only enhanced senses but good moral drive and we play to win do we not? That i believe is seriously lacking in our society is it not? Adam and other monsters prove that.

6. We think outside of norm and the typical and i believe that is a strength when do problem solving, we look at things in a orthodox manner, something that a normal "wired" person cannot, at least without looking it up on Google or anywhere else in Information Super Highway. Adam person did think outside the norm, however it was his choice to do what he did.

So you see? Asperger's espically should not be seen as a curse, but a gift. We are not mentally impared, we are mentally enhanced, we keep the infulence of others out and we are on average smarter than the average person. Still however though everything i mentioned we are also humble as well, and know that we not the best or the brightest but we certainly are not the least of this society. Adam was the least of society, the one man who defied all logic and love in this world and took away 26 people from there loved ones. Adam didn't have the gift like we have, all he had was hate. He was and never will be like us. He squandered what he was given.

You know that, from someone who speaks of the merits of high IQ and academic proficiency, that's not a very profound thing to say.



Come on. What's that kind of thinking ? Do you know by the way that Adam is presented as having an high IQ ? Maybe you're linking or mixing up intelligence with morale sense, which are different things.



You seem to me pretty well informed about what was going on in this person's head.
Furthermore, where is the link between the "outside influence" and the potential for murder ? One brain can be sufficient.



So now there's something wrong with not wanting to have or not having a boyfriend/a girlfriend ? That makes me laugh. It looks exactly like the usual neurotypical heterosexual "propaganda".



I don't see how.



Of course. He was born a monster !
Maybe you should consider the fact that before he did these horrible things... he, as it seems, had done nothing wrong - not more than any other person in this case. Saying otherwise goes against the high degree of morality that you say you possess. Oh, I don't blame you, because that's the kind of thinking that can be found in the mass. You can even find people who say that if they could go back in time, they would kill Adam Lanza in his craddle. The poor ones.
A human can become a "monster" by his acts, indeed. But he wasn't one before he did them. But people forget that.

Grrr, just got a request from my kids school asking for their BMI. I know it doesn't help, but I want to ask them if that's so they know what size body bag to get for the next time they allow a child to be ostracized and bullied into desperate evil

The Medical Examiner isn't even considering Asperger Syndrome as a cause, or even a factor.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-575 ... s-motives/

In other words, he doesn't even care if Lanza had it.

End of story on that angle as far as I'm concerned. Now the only problem is the rumors. What's so stupid about them is that it doesn't even matter.

I almost posted the headbang to this on another thread because of the first couple of stereotypical traits mentioned, but it's well worth getting past that to the part about empathy in this video.

It's a must watch.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestof ... -lanza.cnn

I have not watched a single news broadcast about this topic. I just can't. Does that mean I don't have empathy?

I am bothered by all the statements on hear that seem like the author believes he or she has the ability to know what was going on inside another person's mind. It's rude, at best. I know it's hard to understand when terrible things happen--and I wish that that didn't lead to people coming up with their own explanations, but maybe it's just human nature to do so...

I admire the attempt to set the record straight in the mainstream media about what Asperger's is/isn't. I'm thinking the semantics of what is/isn't empathy/sympathy is probably a bit beyond the media's ability to comprehend, though!

Oh goodz, CNN is about to do another segment on Asperger Syndrome, coming up right after the commercial break. Where is my remote control?

Ackshuly, it wasn't so bad. I think that it was the same as the Sanjay Gupta video in another thread.

The Intelligence Quotient has no bearing on whether or not one wishes to take the life of another.


How would you know whether or not he could insulate himself from external influences. What makes you think he couldn't learn quickly? Can an individual be 100% certain who they are "on the inside?" If so, perhaps that could mean people are NBKs (Natural Born Killers) and would have known they were going to kill someone as soon as they had the capacity to think. Furthermore, if that assumption were true, that would require a tremendous degree of self-control and discipline to repress those urges for so many years. I have a hard time believing that Mr. Lanza knew he was going to be a killer since childhood. That doesn't mean that he wasn't troubled. Clearly he was.



Saying any group of people does something or is a certain way is a hasty generalization. I'm sure within any group, there will be those who have a/no capacity to love/care or who have/lack the desire to have a date. That bit about "depending on gender" is quite antediluvian in my opinion, since people can date anyone regardless of gender. Not all Normies "follow the herd" and not all on the spectrum are non-conformists. How does this factor into your little equation about spree killers?



So if someone was not an American, they must be averse to winning, are not motivated scholars and lack a moral drive? Sounds rather nationalist to me... How does the actions of Mr. Lanza "prove" your views?


Who says normal people don't view things in an orthodox manner? What's up with all the Normie-bashing? I know a good many highly intelligent Normies and I know a good many not-so-intelligent non-NTs. Creative thinking isn't limited to one group of people. Remember when there was a predominant belief that African-Americans/blacks only possessed primitive thinking skills and were somehow subhuman?



Whenever I see anything that tells me or anyone how they "should" feel or how they "should" perceive something, I get wary. What authority do you possess to tell someone whether or not they should feel "gifted" rather than "cursed?" Not all spectrumites are humble, some of us are arrogant, as is the case with Normies. Some individuals don't want to have the conditions they have, while others wouldn't trade it for all the power and riches in the world. How dare anyone tell them they need to change their views. Mr. Lanza perpetrated a heinous act, but that doesn't mean he did not have "the gift." What's that even supposed to be interpreted as? Him not being on the spectrum? Him not possessing love or feeling everything is just unicorns, butterflies and fluffy kittens? What is this magical gift we all supposedly have?

An Brazilian especialist said on a TV program that people who are capable to make it have some specific characteristics but usually one in 100000 will be capable to make it. he added that if we deduct generalise only by this characteristics ( principally mind characteristics) we will kill quite everyone.
I added that the problems is not only shooting or violent video games much less autism. The cross point is our modern culture which creates stereotypes of normality for everything , since beauty untill behavoring. Our society sometimes think that is necessary to respect each other but we must keep on a stantard way or we are not part of the society. Today someone who has any problems ( mental or physical) probably is suffering because he cannot be as a " standard" people".In Sum Standardization is the cause of bullying and the cause of such hideous crime.