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Cleveland kidnapper will face murder charges for forced abor

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Blue_Jackets_fan
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10 May 2013, 3:19 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Why the need to kill people? George W. Bush remains free of the executioner, if this is so, so everyone else should be.


So you are comparing Bush's Iraq war to a lowlife who kidnapped and terrorized 3 innocent women for over 10 years. I am not going to even bother commenting on that.


Bush's war was a million times worse. Bush's war is sort of like doing the same thing that kidnapper did but do it to a whole country and killing and contaminating it with nuclear waste like crazy.

Have you seen the babies of Fallujah. You people are so concerned about the miscarriages, but the babies of Fallujah are the worst horror story, all caused by George W. Bush As long as he is not executed, no one else should be. By the way, under US law, he should be executed as the War Crimes Act of 1996 says that if you preside over death by torture, it's the death penalty. Naturally the prosecutors are refusing to do their job and put the usual people above the law.


How bout saving your Bush hate rhetoric for someone who cares but I for one DON'T



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10 May 2013, 8:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:
If those charges stand and he is convicted of them, it is a bad day for Pro-Choice.

The entire anti-abortion movement rests on the untruth that a fetus is a person.

ruveyn


What exactly makes you the final authority in defining what truly constitutes a person again?



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10 May 2013, 8:58 pm

Tensu wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
If those charges stand and he is convicted of them, it is a bad day for Pro-Choice.

The entire anti-abortion movement rests on the untruth that a fetus is a person.

ruveyn


What exactly makes you the final authority in defining what truly constitutes a person again?


A newborn human has a brain 1/3 the size of what is needed to function as a human. A fetus has even less. It is a matter of physiological and developmental biology. To be a human person one requires a big working brain.

ruveyn



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10 May 2013, 9:12 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Tensu wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
If those charges stand and he is convicted of them, it is a bad day for Pro-Choice.

The entire anti-abortion movement rests on the untruth that a fetus is a person.

ruveyn


What exactly makes you the final authority in defining what truly constitutes a person again?


A newborn human has a brain 1/3 the size of what is needed to function as a human. A fetus has even less. It is a matter of physiological and developmental biology. To be a human person one requires a big working brain.

ruveyn


Why?



xenon13
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11 May 2013, 12:49 am

Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Blue_Jackets_fan wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Why the need to kill people? George W. Bush remains free of the executioner, if this is so, so everyone else should be.


So you are comparing Bush's Iraq war to a lowlife who kidnapped and terrorized 3 innocent women for over 10 years. I am not going to even bother commenting on that.


Bush's war was a million times worse. Bush's war is sort of like doing the same thing that kidnapper did but do it to a whole country and killing and contaminating it with nuclear waste like crazy.

Have you seen the babies of Fallujah. You people are so concerned about the miscarriages, but the babies of Fallujah are the worst horror story, all caused by George W. Bush As long as he is not executed, no one else should be. By the way, under US law, he should be executed as the War Crimes Act of 1996 says that if you preside over death by torture, it's the death penalty. Naturally the prosecutors are refusing to do their job and put the usual people above the law.


How bout saving your Bush hate rhetoric for someone who cares but I for one DON'T


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12 May 2013, 8:58 pm

xenon13 wrote:
I do not agree at all. It is all so typical to want to charge the latest villain with everything under the sun as they decided to charge Holmes with murder twice for every death! The contortions behind charging someone with murder because his activities cause miscarriages go too far. Is it not enough that this person is guilty of abduction, imprisonment and rape? Are these things not bad enough?


Disagree.
Though there is the obvious issue of whether inducing miscarriage should be considered 'murder' ( which ofcourse gets us into abortion debate).

But putting that issue aside for a moment:

If you perpetrate a crime that accidently causes the death of someone- then you are charged with manslaughter atleast, if not murder.

If you stick up my liquor store with a gun, and I pull a pistol out from underneath my cash register and shoot at you- miss you- and hit a innocent bystander on the street and kill them. Who gets blamed?

YOU do!

Because your illegile action percipitated the whole thing.

So blaming the kidnapper for the kidnapped woman's induced miscarriage is perfectly consistent with the law.



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12 May 2013, 10:44 pm

I don't support the death penalty, so I'm rooting for an acquittal and a disappearance.


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12 May 2013, 11:42 pm

If you convict people for murder over the deaths of the unborn, then it seems to me that abortion must also be officially considered to be murders. Otherwise, the principle becomes that the mother chooses to dispose of the unborn and that only she has this right, that could head straight into legalising infanticide! Or allowing parents to execute their children.



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27 May 2013, 4:06 pm

blue_bean wrote:
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So, if a woman by herself elects to get an abortion is that prosecutor going to charge her with murder, too?

It sounds to me like the prosecutor is just after publicity ("he's for the rights of the unborn & is tough on crime!"), and he's going to end up encouraging these anti-abortion "personhood" laws.


Murder seems excessive but it's definitely a few steps above ordinary assault. Maybe it's comparable to murder in regards to the sense of loss/theft the girls might have felt when having their chances at motherhood literally beat to death. The "abortions" were completely involuntary. Maybe it's about the gross deprivation of the mother's liberty to make decisions about the unborn child, not the rights of the unborn child itself. That and there are a LOT less dangerous ways to abort a fetus. It could have near killed the mothers as well.

ETA; In Ohio there's a specific criminal law against fetal homicide. And don't forget the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.


This.


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