An Independent Scotland ?

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Toy_Soldier
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16 Sep 2014, 9:43 am

I am glad to hear they want to remain in NATO. I can't imagine getting into a big one without the Highlanders.

TallyMan
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16 Sep 2014, 9:49 am

I hope they vote NO, as I foresee economic gloom for both Scotland and England if they split up and a fall in the value of £ sterling internationally.

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sonofghandi
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16 Sep 2014, 10:47 am

TallyMan wrote:

I hope they vote NO, as I foresee economic gloom for both Scotland and England if they split up and a fall in the value of £ sterling internationally.

^This.

All that oil revenue they are hoping for is not going to be nearly enough to keep up services for Scotland alone, and it will be a blow to a separate England as well. The North Sea oil reserves are shrinking, and the reserves that are still plentiful are in deeper and choppier waters, leading to drastically increased expenses. Not to mention that England has a decent claim to a large portion, and I doubt they will let it go without a lot of wasted resources and temper tantrums on both sides.

Not to mention the fact that England has stated they will separate their currency entirely on independence, which the pro-independence side has dismissed as "bluffing," despite it being a likely response for a perceived rebuff.

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Marcia
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16 Sep 2014, 12:57 pm

I kept thinking it was Wednesday today instead of Tuesday. I think I just want Thursday's Referendum to be over.

Many people I speak to are increasingly anxious and there is a horrible atmosphere, I think. No voters that I know are saying that they don't want to become independent but if that happens then they'll just get on with it and work to make it go as well as possible. The Yes people, on the other hand, are quite intimidatory and unpleasant to those who don't agree with them.

Urgh! Feeling worried.

Toy_Soldier
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16 Sep 2014, 2:37 pm

I am reading some things that people are getting nastier as it comes down to the wire. I suppose that's unavoidable in such a close run issue and one of such importance.

However, whatever happens I think Scotland won't be dramatically different the day after. In the case of a 'Yes' vote, its not like they will pick up the country and place in next to Papau New Guinea and you will have to learn how to hunt wild boar to survive. The changes at first will be a lot to do with legal re-organization of trade and banking but whatever was going on is likely to continue going on, both import and export.

pluto
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16 Sep 2014, 3:36 pm

The difference in the approach of the 2 sides is that while the No campaign were holding a question & answer event to give the public
much-needed information,the Yes campaign were holding a pop concert.
The Yes supporting Scottish government have granted 16 & 17 year olds the right to vote for the first time and it seems this ploy is gaining them the support of the younger generation,but I wonder how many of them might unknowingly spoil their ballot papers by scribbling 'FREEDOM ! or suchlike alongside their 'X'.

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Prof_Pretorius
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16 Sep 2014, 5:30 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

TallyMan wrote:

I hope they vote NO, as I foresee economic gloom for both Scotland and England if they split up and a fall in the value of £ sterling internationally.

All that oil revenue they are hoping for is not going to be nearly enough to keep up services for Scotland alone, and it will be a blow to a separate England as well. The North Sea oil reserves are shrinking, and the reserves that are still plentiful are in deeper and choppier waters, leading to drastically increased expenses.

Wherever the oil lies, I'm betting that some Yank oil company will figure out how to get to it. $$$, you know.

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eric76
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16 Sep 2014, 6:25 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

Supporters of the status quo (regardless of the issue or candidate that represents it) generally have a more difficult time getting their voters to follow through and actually attend their polls (the rallying cry of "more of the same" hardly motivates); at least, when compared to opponents of the status quo who see a moral obligation to punctuate their opinions with a ballot vote. This will likely be the reason stated next week by the unionists if they lose ("many of our voters just stayed home").

On the other hand, I understand that the YES vote is significantly heavier among the young who are often less likely to vote in an election.

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16 Sep 2014, 6:28 pm

pluto wrote:

I've just been reading an article in Scottish Review which mentions that the majority of 16 and 17 year olds are minded to vote No. This chimes with what a couple of teacher friends said to me last year. They ran a mock referendum in the school and the quite overwhelming outcome was a No vote.

There is an increasingly overt feeling of intimidation from the Yes camp, and emotions are running very high. I am getting more worried all the time. We aren't going to see overnight changes in how our institutions and organisations are run, but it is so close and emotions are so high that I am very anxious about how we are going to relate to each other as people afterwards. The Yes campaigners are high on emotion.

Hoping for a No and still worried about what that would bring.

eric76
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16 Sep 2014, 6:32 pm

pluto wrote:

If it's a Yes vote I reckon we'll end up with the most complicated break up in history,especially as we're on the same island as England and Wales. Even in the event of independence,most Scots who vote No (nearly half the population) would most likely want to retain their British citizenship,as they would be entitled to do. After all they were born in Britain and lived in it all this time. The Scots in England (800,000) and around the world would be left in limbo - they weren't considered Scottish when votes in the referendum were being granted,whereas
foreign nationals who reside here temporarily are getting votes.
Alex Salmond's blueprint for 'independence' includes retaining the British monarchy,the pound Sterling controlled by the Bank Of England,
membership of NATO (but getting rid of it's nuclear submarines based on our shores),and open borders (with England and Northern Ireland) despite advocating a different immigration policy from them.

What's the difference between "Great Britain" and "The United Kingdom"?

Regarding keeping the pound Sterling, the Isle of Man has such an arrangement even though it is not part of the United Kingdom. Their currency reportedly portrays the Queen, but without a crown since she is the Lord of Mann, not the Queen of Mann.

Marcia
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16 Sep 2014, 6:40 pm

Great Britain is a geographic entity - the shared island. The United Kingdom is a political entity comprising Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. If we vote for independence on Thursday we'll still be part of Great Britain, but we'll leave the United Kingdom.

The currency issue is a massive one and it is unresolved. The Yes campaigners blithely sweep away any concerns about that with an airy, "oh, that'll all be sorted out afterwards"!

Toy_Soldier
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16 Sep 2014, 10:09 pm

I read students, women and pensioners were more likely to vote 'No'.

eric76
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16 Sep 2014, 10:10 pm

Marcia wrote:

One thing I've been curious about is the status of the Channel Islands of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark, and the rest of them.

Are they considered to be British Dependencies, but not part of the UK? Or something else?

Tequila
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17 Sep 2014, 5:24 am

eric76 wrote:

Marcia wrote:

One thing I've been curious about is the status of the Channel Islands of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark, and the rest of them.

Ah, they're pathetic with the currency issue. They haven't come up with a proper plan for leaving. Personally, a lot of us in England are getting mightily hacked off with Scotland at the moment.

Are they considered to be British Dependencies, but not part of the UK? Or something else?

Not part of the UK, not part of the EU. They're Crown dependencies.

They have their own postal system but it ties in with the UK postcode system also. They also BBC radio stations that cater to them - i.e. BBC Radio Guernsey and BBC Radio Jersey. However, the Isle of Man does not have a BBC radio station set aside for it locally but instead has Manx Radio, which is partly funded by the Manx government. They all use the pound, but the banknotes are different.

Dillogic
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17 Sep 2014, 6:46 am

Free Wales!

(Grandma is calling to me from oblivion.)

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17 Sep 2014, 7:41 am

Marcia wrote:

emotions are running very high. I am getting more worried all the time. We aren't going to see overnight changes in how our institutions and organisations are run, but it is so close and emotions are so high that I am very anxious about how we are going to relate to each other as people afterwards

That's what I intended to suggest in my earlier posts. I think the opposing campaigns have been surprised by the closeness of the opinion polls - I think that there is a serious risk of Scotland becoming a divided nation.

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