Mass shooting at Oregon college: 15+ dead...

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James Holmes jammed his AR15 almost immediately during the Aurora shooting and had to transition to another weapon.

Holmes fired 76 shots in the theater: six from the shotgun, 65 from the semi-automatic rifle, and five from the .40-caliber handgun.

Peejay, I'm going to try and get back to you on this stuff, I'm kinda busy with work at the moment, but I've got to tell you, I'm trying really hard to bring more light than heat to this argument, if you know what I mean, and condescending comments regarding why people like me might believe what me do are making that much more difficult. I have a degree from one of the two colleges in the country that have full time gunsmithing programs, I've got over a decade of personal experience with firearms, and I guarantee more personally conducted research than anyone commenting here, so please spare me any comparisons to religion, my beliefs are solidly constructed on facts and experience, unlike the many posters here who haven't even shot a gun, let alone carried one daily.

Here's some quick food for thought before I have to go:

Oregon shooter's father: Gun laws have to change

Honestly there is no good argument for gun ownership. About the only argument the NRA folks regularly fall back on (when the chips are down) is that guns make you safer.
Perhaps in Hollywood movies?

Q. Does carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
According to FBI website in 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.
• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.

Q. DO guns make women safer.
In 2010 according to the FBI, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 5 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

When you take away the one crutch the NRA rely on then their entire premise is phoney. It's much like what Kraichgauer posted on the thread about guns/crime that that a significant proportion of gun owners are secretly enamored/aroused by the idea of killing things (if not defenseless animals then blowing up bottles on fenceposts or clay pigeons) with high projectile weapons that they control in the palm of their hands.

cyberdad said" Honestly, there is no good argument for gun ownership". I find it strange that when I have posted on several threads dealing with this subject my circumstances, the anti-gunners never reply. So, here we go again.

I live in an area surrounded by wilderness. I have some guns for protection from wildlife. Said wildlife include bears, mountain lions, and rattlesnakes; all of which are dangerous not only to my animals but also to me. I have had to put a shot across the bows of one bear, and I have had to shoot one monstrous rattlesnake because they were threats. And yet you people say that guns are inherently evil and have no place in our society. And I can't be the only one who lives in these situations.

So maybe you people should stop looking for an easy fix to your violence problems and correct your screwed up neighbors. Oh, that's right, that would require effort on your part!

Genuinely no intention to sound condescending Dox, just my writing style i suppose. Me too trying to generate light not heat.
The comparison to religion was just my attempt to say that people really believe in this on an almost visceral level... no offense intended,

I'm following the thread and just wanted to highlight that this is not correct. He was using a 100 round drum magazine and fired 65 shots before the gun jammed.

This truth about guns would be a lot less truthy if it counted gun deaths, rather than gun homicides, and included the rest of the world's stats for context. And had more than four points on it.

Crime of all kinds is down tremendously since 1993, incidentally, and no one really knows why. One of the stranger arguments comes from the freakonomics people, who say that it corresponds to Roe v. Wade and the supposition that a lot of unwanted babies were not born after 1973, and therefore did not grow up neglected and at-risk, removing a lot of potential criminals from the population.

What that means is that if you want to go on protecting yourself from critters with guns, you should probably be working with others for sensible and responsible gun laws that do not allow people to build home arsenals, buy without the sort of licensures and tests we require of drivers, keep guns without regular relicensure, etc. Like it or not, this is your problem too.

According to the Census, about 15% of US residents live in rural areas now. That means 85% of us do not have to worry about bears and rattlesnakes, because we've destroyed their habitats to make our own. Very few of us rely on hunting anymore for food, either. So yes, there are others like you. Just not very many. What that means is that if you want to go on protecting yourself from critters with guns, you should probably be working with others for sensible and responsible gun laws that do not allow people to build home arsenals, buy without the sort of licensures and tests we require of drivers, keep guns without regular relicensure, etc. Like it or not, this is your problem too.

Hey glebel, who are the people that want to ban all guns in the U.S.? I have never heard ANY proposals to do anything close to this. I think the closest I've ever heard from someone in a position of power is Senator Feinstein and she's never proposed anything like that in the senate. I can kind of understand her statement as she was there when Harvey Milk was assassinated.

George Soros, the ex-Nazi who funds so many 'liberal' causes and organizations for starters, such as the Violence Policy Center. He imported a woman who was instrumental in imposing Australia's draconian gun laws to do the same here. Nothing succeeds like success.
When we have to go to the government to ask permission for anything that is allowed under the Constitution, this is the beginning of dictatorial rule. I can see where a person could go to the government, a person with a legitimate need for, and a legal right to have a firearm, and the government would say "No, we don't think you need it".
And still, what needs to happen is for society to clean up it's act, and not go running to the government for all solutions to every problem, real or imagined.