transgender student OKed for locker room access

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I would like to point out that the reason men and women are separated is because of the assumption that all men are lewd, sexual predators and potential rapists and cannot control themselves around women. It even affects small boys, who probably have no idea what sex is. And since some people don't see trans girls as girls, they too fall under this rather offensive stereotype. It's not because women and girls would faint/swoon/panic/be scarred for life at the thought of a penis in the room.

Seriously, we don't want trouble. We just want to do sport as the people we are. Preferably whilst keeping our genitals as far away from yours as possible.

She presents as female, plays on girl's school sports teams, addressed as female, so the body is seen as female.

Except that she has a penis, which is not "seen as female."

Yes, fear of the "penis monster" seems to be the root of this.

Except no one is going to see it at all, because she's not a guy & really doesn't want anyone to see it.

No, it's not "fear of the penis monster" at all. I've got a penis so why would I fear it? If someone has a penis then they are male, regardless of how they dress or "present" themselves. The same is true for a female who dresses as a man and takes hormones, if she still have a vagina then she is a female. If either wishes to use the facilities designated for their chosen sex then once they've had surgery very few sane people would object. The issue is not with transgender people using facilities at all, it's with people who have the sex organs of one sex accessing facilities designated for people who have the opposite sex organs. It's an issue about the imposition of one person's wishes, to use one set of facilities, in total disregard for the wishes of those other people who do not wish a person who has the sexual organs of the opposite sex using their facilities.

That's a pretty sexist remark. I for one would be well pissed off if a female used male changing room or toilet facilities while I was using them.

Unfortunately I've now reached my quota of 345 posts and that's it.

In your world of genital shape only = sex, where do people with neither go, please? You know, like the 800 or so Iraq war vets who lost their penis, or people who were born with intersex conditions? Also, on that last one what about people who only have very mild intersex conditions, like say, hypospadias?

Last edited by Edenthiel on 13 Dec 2015, 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

This is a minor argument for separation of the biological sexes amongst the many legitimate reasons for the separation. Besides, women can just be as lewd as men...



His body is male, we can all see it, including you. Lie to yourself all you want, I'm not buying it.

No, I can't see it because I don't watch people change. That's creepy. Stop it. Don't look at my genitals.

(also as a fun aside, I like how many cisgendered folk worry about a trans person watching them change, but talk about seeing trans people's bodies in the changing rooms, which means they would have to have been peeping. Hands up if you've ever been watched whilst using the urinal...*raises hand*)

Having used both facilities, I can assure you that in almost all facilities the only difference is the presence of a urinal or a tampon machine and a sign on the door. None of which are necessary to a successful clothes change.

Plus, doesn't seeing someone's genitals mean that you are watching them change? Like, isn't that what cis people are afraid of trans people doing to them? There should be no way you would be able to see my genitals in the changing room unless A) you were peeping, or B) I stand up on a bench and shout "look at my genitals!". Trust me, we hate our genitals more than you hate our genitals - we have as much reason to hide them as you have to not look at them.

*Raises hand*

I've been intently watched while using the urinal, and I'm not transgendered. They did it because they found out I didn't want them to.

Er what? So now it's *not* chromosomes that determine sex, even though you (or was it someone else?) claimed that it *is* chromosomes that are most important to determine sex?

Regarding locker rooms, I still find it bizarre that you have communal showers and lack stalls. What kind of backwards country is America, anyway?

Regarding the actual story, is the girl in question on hormones? I presume she is, since she's playing on the girls sports teams - in which case, regardless of whether you think she should use the girls lockers, she certainly shouldn't be made to use the boys ones. Though I don't think she was, because that's not what normally happens in these cases.

Regarding what makes someone "scientifically" male, this post on Skepchick is a helpful read. To be honest, it sounds like people who claim chromosomes or genitals to be the sole means of determining sex/gender aren't basing it on any kind of reasoning, just starting with that as a prior, seemingly only because it allows them to disqualify transsexuals. Those who argue "bert chremerserms" need to ask themselves: if a doctor did a karyotype and found you had the sex chromosomes of the opposite sex (a very small, but real, possibility), would you be willing to transition to your "true" sex? If not, then whilst you may believe in the belief that chromosomes reveal someone's true sex, you don't *actually* believe it.

I'm done with this topic. Transgender people are going to believe what they want and the same goes for me. It doesn't matter what is said, I will never say what happened in this courtcase is ok. That doesn't make me ignorant, it doesn't make me a transgenderphobe, or that I hate anyone for being transgender - it means that I have a different opinion from what some of you have here. I do believe certain people's rights were taken away from them just to give special treatment to the one. If all the transgender people here think that everyone is going to agree with the decision of the judge in this case and sit back saying nothing, then you are the ignorant ones. I've said my views, my views will never change and that is all I'm going to contribute on this topic. Arguing back and forth just wears me out and puts me in a bad mood.

I do want to say one more thing, when a topic gets hot there's no need to run to a moderator every darn time - learn how to fight your own battles. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the thread.

he also forces any girls that wish to have to dress themselves behind curtains

I just have to say--as a health professional (if you really are a nurse) you should know more about this topic and it's really disappointing that you are not informed so you can deal compassionately with transgender patients. I feel sorry for anyone transgender who encounters you in a professional medical setting and has to put up with your ignorance and lack of compassion for them.