Militant Vegans attack customers

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If they're being that obnoxious I'd say some militant vegans needed to be dragged out to the parking lot to have the living shi+ kicked out of them.

I was there when it all went down. I tried to explain to them that I'd only eaten a salad, but they didn't believe me. I got stabbed in the back with a carrot and fled from the restaurant, fearing for my life. A mob of angry hippies followed me and surrounded my car in the parking lot, pelting my windshield with tomatoes. I floored it, knocking over a malnourished, androgynous white person with shoulder-length dreadlocks. I'm still not sure whether it was a man or woman, or whether the stains that remain on my bumper are blood or tomato juice. I'm thankful that I sustained only minor injuries and lived to see another day.

I never eat in restaurants so I suppose i'm safe.

Hey guys, I saw this, and I felt like I needed to respond. I have been vegan for the last 7 years, although I would never use methods like this to promote veganism, it's counterproductive. Most people do eat meat thanks to misinformation, which I stopped as soon as I could see through it. Some would say what I'm doing is forcing my views on others, but this is simply facts. And as we are in an environmental crisis right now, which animal agriculture is more responsible for than all forms of transportation put together, we do need to make more educated choices. I don't believe in attacking people, as most people are good people, who are making bad choices thanks to misinformation being spread by an industry that is grasping at straws as much as the tobacco industry was when it came out that smoking causes cancer. So I believe very much in attacking this misinformation, so all the good people of the world can make choices that benefit everyone, both human and non-human animals. Here goes....

"Does this constitute terrorism?" - Terrorism is kind of a drastic way to put it, as the customers would have to be injured or what not to fit the definition of terrorism. But it's not the most effective way to promote veganism in my opinion. People need to feel that veganism is healthier, and more practical than the way most people eat now. And actually, not only is all of that true, but it's much better for the environment.

"Veganism is an ideology of the privileged and a hardship of the very poor.

What I mean by that is, to remain healthy on a vegan diet, one must have access to a wide variety of food and most people don't have that luxury. A wealthy person can live healthfully as a vegan but a very poor person often has no choice but to eat a diet free of animal proteins and suffers the consequences of malnutrition due to limited food variety.

It's fine to be a vegan but people should understand the limits of the practicality of it. The Yanomami in the Amazon, who subsist primarily on a plant based, low protein diet have two words for hungry. One means desiring food. The other means desiring meat." - I'm pretty broke right now. That said, it's a good thing I don't eat meat, because my grocery bill would be more expensive, not less. For a while after I moved out of my ex's, I didn't have access to a fridge or a kitchen, so it was very helpful to not have to worry about storing meat.

If you rely on fake meats your grocery bill will be more expensive, but those aren't healthy anyway. Beans for one are very cheap. I generally think of my diet as 4 food groups, fruit, vegetables, proteins, and grains. As for protein, whatever your body weight is in kilograms times 2 is the most protein your body can digest in a day anyway without hurting your kidneys. Thus, most omnivores eat more protein than their bodies can digest. Animal products cause inflammation, which means that you need more rest days between workouts, and being able to train more often is a huge advantage for obvious reasons. Even if you're not an athlete, less inflammation also means less ASD symptoms.

There was a time humans had to eat meat because of scarcity. Before electricity and refrigeration, in the middle of winter there wasn't much else available besides meat, milk, and root vegetables like potatoes. Nowadays, anyone in industrialised countries has access to quality fruits and vegetables year round. Our bodies evolved to eat this way in any case. Our teeth are the same as frugivores such as gorillas, and our digestive system is also in line with frugivores. True omnivores such as lions have a very short digestive tract as meat purifies the longer it's in the body. And if we were really meant to eat animals, we would be able to kill them without weapons, like lions can. Maybe we could with insects. And if you look at the diet of chimpanzees, our closest relative, it's 97% plant and 3% animal, with insects being their only major source of animal protein.

"ok what about protein? (the building blocks of muscles and tissue in general)
that's hard to get if you don't eat meat or eggs or milk or cheese etc.
you have to eat bucket loads of nuts and beans.....oh it's making me sick just thinking about it." - As a vegan athlete, my performance has gotten much better since I cut out animal products. Many other vegan athletes, such as Carl Lewis, would say the same. I'm 36 years old and can run and swim faster than many people half my age, I'm still getting faster, and I'm working towards one day competing in the Ironman. And vegan triathletes such as Rich Roll (currently in his 50s) and Ruth Heidrich (currently in her 80s, and this is not a typo, she survived breast cancer in her 40s by adopting a vegan diet and went on to compete in the Ironman) show exactly what is possible. I'm also very muscular, and can lift heavier objects than most women my age. I need less rest days than omnivore athletes, as omnivorous diets promote inflammation, and being able to train more often is an obvious advantage.

The most protein anyone can digest in a day without overloading the kidneys can be calculated by multiplying your body weight in kilograms by 2. So, at 60 kg, there is no point in me eating more than 120 g of protein a day. If I was sedentary, 70 g of protein would be enough, but since I am active, I aim for 100-120 g of protein a day. I really don't have to work hard to get to this at all, most of my meals contain at least 30 g of protein. With yummy meals at that, like pastas (gluten free, which is much better for ASD anyway), curries, etc.

A huge disadvantage of eating animal products is you are consuming hormones, which is a disaster for the endocrine system. Even if you ate an egg collected from a wild chicken, the chicken still had to produce more oestrogen than normal to ovulate. Same goes with dairy. Testosterone levels in vegans are higher than that of omnivores. In fact, many men who did have erectile dysfunction that nothing else could fix report that it went away pretty much immediately once they went vegan.

"steak grown on a petri dish is just around the corner mate" - I'm really glad for this, although I still wouldn't eat it considering that I feel younger now than I did when I went vegan 7 years ago. But, it does solve the predicament of what to feed my cat, who actually does need meat.

"Getting in customer's faces like that isn't exactly really terrorism, but it is obnoxious. And its also counter productive to the cause (makes you look crazy, and alienates sympathy for you)." - I completely agree. The most effective way of activism, as Gandhi said, is to be the change you wish to see in the world. By doing this, I actually have inspired a few people around me to go vegan without intentionally trying, and definitely more people than I would have gotten to go vegan if I highlighted the deplorable treatment the animals go through.

"I'm concerned about my cats though. If veganism becomes obligatory, my cats won't have their animal proteins because they rely on me, and I won't be able to buy them food they need. It will lead to carnivorous pets getting banned." - Well, I did mention this in one of my earlier points about test tube meat. I do know someone who feeds all 12 of her cats on a vegan diet, successfully, but I'm still hesitant to try this with my cat. I love all animals, although my cat comes first. She did say that the Taurine (the number 1 nutrient that makes cats need meat) in most cat food is synthetic. If you compare cats and humans, cats can kill animals big enough to make a meal out of without weapons, humans can't. I don't think carnivorous pets will be banned, more that better quality vegan cat food will eventually be developed and/or test tube meat will serve this function. And we really need to spay and neuter more anyway, considering that most cats in shelters end up being euthanised because not enough homes can be found.

"In time animals will stopped being slaughtered by humans for food but millions of herbivorous grazers are currently killed and eaten by predators every day? by extension should they interrupt a lion nibbling on a antelope and complain? the ethics is a little loopy" - It's not loopy at all, it's pretty simple. Lions need to kill animals obviously, but by that logic, you could say since lions need to kill animals, herbivorous animals such as horses, elephants, and yup, humans should be able to. Obviously, this would throw the ecosystem out of whack, the animals they prey on would go extinct very rapidly. This is already happening. Estimates are that by the year 2048 there will be no more edible fish in the oceans. The ecosystem can stay in balance if we can stick to how nature intended it, where carnivorous animals like cats and sharks keep eating animals, and herbivorous animals like elephants and humans keep eating plants.

On a side note that's very relevant, lions usually make a kill, feast, and then don't eat at all for several days. Humans who do eat meat definitely eat it more often than that. In fact, before the modern era and factory farming, for the most part humans who weren't royalty ate meat once a week or less. Nowadays, we're so detached from it that it's so easy to demand whatever without thinking about where it came from.

"So if these w#nkers get what they want and everybody stops eating meat, what then. How do we feed everybody? To provide plant based diets to all humans, we would have to clear extensive tracts of land leading to extra pressure and probable extinction of the wildlife." - This is where a lot of misinformation has been spread. To produce 1 kg of meat, it takes at least 10 kg of plants. Astronomically less land needs to be cleared to feed people on a vegan diet than on an omnivorous diet. Some would argue that plants feel pain, and this may or may not be true. If it is, still, 10 times as many plants are killed if people eat meat than are killed if people eat only plants.

The main reason for the rapid deforestation in the Amazon is land being cleared to graze cattle. It also takes 6000 - 10000 litres of water to produce 1 kg of beef, also not a typo! So a vegan who takes long showers every day is still consuming less water than a meat eater who never showers. If everyone stopped eating meat, I can guarantee you that countries like Australia would not have a water shortage.

Some species of bears and wolves, as well as prairie dogs, are now endangered thanks to the meat industry. The bluefin tuna, a carnivorous fish, is close to extinction.

"Temple Grandin has done wonderful work improving our treatment of animals in food production. I like Temples thinking." - It really saddens me that Temple Grandin used her Aspie superpowers for this purpose. And actually, it's estimated that most animals slaughtered for meat are not properly stunned first. Customer demand means that production line speeds have been driven to levels that are unsafe, and also unsafe for the slaughterhouse workers. So her methods haven't done much good at all, the animals still suffer greatly.

"I think vegans would taste just like grain fed pork or veal" - Physiologically, we are very close to pigs, so we would probably taste like pork. People who have smelled human flesh burning have reported that it smells almost exactly like bacon cooking.

"Plus those pets wear fur. Such hypocrisy." - Hardly hypocrisy, considering that animals who have fur didn't brutally murder someone to get it! Many animals killed for their fur are killed using methods such as anal electrocution.

"However people should be internally motivated to switch to plant based diets rather than be frightened" - Completely. I watched Fast Food Nation, where they do show cows being slaughtered, several years before I went vegan. I was horrified, but then I though it sucks but unfortunately I do need meat to thrive, I'll just try to eat as little as I can get away with and try to find humane meat. As time went on, and after doing my business degree, I came to the understanding that there is no way meat could be produced humanely in a way that is financially viable.

When I did go vegan, it was because of animal rights. I lived close to a chicken slaughterhouse at the time, and worked night shift at a hotel. Driving to work, I would often see trucks packed full of frightened chickens, much more than I would see driving in the daytime. This started to make me think maybe they're hiding something if they mostly transport the chickens at night, especially considering that it's required by law to pay night shift workers a premium. This made me Google, and what is seen can't be unseen. So I went vegan pretty much immediately. It's a lot of shocking information, which is too much for anyone to be able to process in one go, so frightening people is very counterproductive.

What I do have to say though it I feel so amazing that even if meat grew on trees, I still wouldn't eat it. And even if the animals didn't have a central nervous system and thus were oblivious to what was going on, the resulting environmental destruction is in and of itself enough to make us need to rethink our food choices, before all of humanity is screwed. Ultimately, being vegan is as much about human rights as it is about animal rights.

"It doesn't work that way. If the whole human race switched to vegetarianism we would need to grow LESS plant crops, not more. That's because animal livestock needs to be fed too. And its more efficient to eat lower on the food chain than it is to add extra levels to the trophic pyramid. The rule of thumb is that it takes a ten to one ratio to go up a level in the food chain. Ten pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef, and then ten pounds of beef (worth 100 pounds of grain) to sustain one pound of human. If you go directly from plant to human, and skip the animal middleman, you actually eliminate the need to grow 90 pounds of plant matter per pound of human." - Yup! I forgot to mention in a response like that I typed to an earlier comment that most of the grain grown in Africa is exported to feed Western livestock. Pretty tragic when you think of how much that grain would benefit humans in Africa.

"This is a quote from a rural land planning paper " Contrary to most beliefs, only 10 % of Australia’s land mass is arable land suitable for soil based agriculture and livestock production. Much of this is marginal with respect to water and nutrient regimes." Cattle are super tough and survive in places that are of little use otherwise." - I've lived in Australia before, a long time ago, and I think considering human ingenuity, and the fact that Australia's population is pretty low for a country with a lot of land area, that people would be ok, actually even better off. Like I mentioned earlier, it takes upwards of 10 kg of plants to grow 1 kg of meat. And that it takes 6000 - 10000 litres of water to grow 1 kg of meat. The statistic on the water makes me wonder if Australia would have more arable land if that water was made available for growing crops. And of course, if you need more plants to feed the livestock, you also need more land, and only arable land will work for growing the plants that livestock eat.

So, actually transitioning towards a plant based diet is one of the best things any country can do. If there's still not enough arable land in Australia after if and when animal agriculture is a thing of the past, humans are pretty smart, there are always ways. Urban farming is becoming a reality. In Holland where I live, lots of crops are grown in greenhouses, if you drive through rural areas here you see tons of greenhouses.

In any case, wherever you live, if you want more land and water, the best thing to do is stop eating animals and their secretions.

"why can't our brilliant scientists figure out a way to make edible animals better for our health? like pump 'em full of vitamins and minerals and omega 3s and such" - Omega 3s that some get from fish are recycled Omegas from plants. Protein that some get from animals is recycled protein from plants. Why not just cut out the middleman and go straight for the plant? Problem, solved!

"Because that would upset the vegans as they could no longer claim their diet is healthier." - Not really, a vegan diet still wouldn't come with a side of cholesterol, carcinogens, etc.

One more thing that is very important to add, looking over this. Thinking about the different animal based sources of foods, dairy is definitely the worst for your health. And think about it, granted that some animals eat other animals, but no other animals breastfeed in adulthood, whether it's from their own species or from another. I recently saw a lecture from Dr. Milton Mills, who brought up an excellent point about the link between dairy and cancer, which is as strong as the link between tobacco and cancer. Milk promotes rapid cell division, which helps a baby grow into an adult. In adults, rapid cell division is not a process you want to stimulate, that causes cancer. I know when I cut out dairy, which was about a year before I went vegan, severe acne that I had struggled with for most of my life (I was 28 at the time) went away within 3 weeks and never came back, and I had been to tons of specialists over the years and tried just about every zit creme on the market.

For autism, almost everyone who has cut dairy and gluten out of their diets has noticed a huge improvement in symptoms. So even if you're not ready to go vegan, cutting out dairy is a great first step, even before cutting out meat.

As you guys can see clearly if you made it to the end of this post, nutrition and health would be my Aspie special interest! So I'm happy to answer any questions anyone has about this, either on this thread or privately. And if you worry about what to eat as a vegan, I still eat lots, I had curry last night, and a lot of chocolate is vegan. So there are options, which are much tastier than bacon could ever hope to be!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZtNsflPBSg

or Attila the bun? (YouTube is embedded above the link. Link is provided for those whose browsers still aren't showing the embeds.)

if SNL wanted to be more cutting edge, they'd riff on this incident or incidents like it.

Although it happened in the antipodes not in the states

This particular vegan protest is in Toronto Canada
http://www.news.com.au/technology/scien ... b0562bc609
The vegan protesters have been holding a picket line outside the steakhouse intimidating customers

Might be the vegan militants are on the move?

OH NO!

Militant Veganism has arrived on our doorstep! (of here in the USA).

You can expect a upswing in death by vegetable.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/684 ... BBAGE.html