Mandatory COVID Passports and Passports in General

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I'm pretty sure basic necessities like food and drink are more important than employment, which was what I implied by supermarkets.

And yeh, I agree about freezing people out of society.

Governments are inherently dishonest, and so are their scientists, so that's out. Did you know that at least in England, people of most age groups are going to be encouraged to get a flu jab too? My topic on that barely got a response, which really surprised me. Flu jabs specifically, as you say, were for vulnerable groups only before. That's a significant change.

And yes, nobody supporting the COVID vaccine (CV) is thinking that maybe it isn't all its cracked up to be. Those same people are (Or were) weary about the flu jab, saying that it never worked on them. Despite the COVID jab having barely been tested in comparison to the flu jab, people are very strongly for it. They believe the government on this one. I don't understand it.

Off-topic: I've noticed specifically in the News and PPR forums, that it's very cliquey. Either that, or I'm really disliked by the people there. They almost never talk to me.

I think that it's part of a medical scientists mentality to save every last sole regardless of the practicalities.

It's the government's job to weigh up those practicalities and they're doing a terrible job. We have a serious case of covid tunnel vision here all other medical ailments seem to be ignored. I tried to book a dentist checkup and was told it's emergency only.....as it has for a long, long time now. My mother has to have her jaw bone filed down after a nasty abscess which should have been spotted with a routine checkup (that are cancelled)

All this hysteria is just kicking the can down the road for other medical needs which will eventually catch up with us. Waiting lists for appointments and surgery is crazy now.

The jabs just aren't working as well as hoped and it's spread needs to be accepted. So far one person has died from this new variant here. I wonder how many more have died on waiting lists?

Don't bother with you flu jab too. Don't appease the medical Muppets by having one.

I think it's all about the money. The poor third world countries have a lack of jabs. AstraZeneca apparently is going to help supply those countries with jabs instead, since the media deliberately made a mountain out of a molehill about the very rare blood clotting disorder side effects, and they didn't mention the more common bad side effects of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. The media (And the government) did a good job of demonising the AZ jab, people will rarely be able to have it even as a booster shot now. I'm not completely praising the AZ jab, but it makes me wonder what the media's agenda was.

That's the thing, with medical procedures being severely delayed for the sake of the jabs, the government's reasoning of saving peoples' lives and the NHS doesn't add up, does it? They never cared about the NHS and deliberately privatised parts of it and underfunded it for years. It would then stand to reason that they don't give a jack about saving lives too.

The government/MPs/PM/whatever pretend to a degree they're dumb and that they don't understand, and ALWAYS further down the road, "Admit mistakes were made" to fool the public that they're doing all they can to help them when they don't, and to make the public feel helpless. It's easier to forgive someone who was (Deliberately) "Making mistakes" than someone who says, "Yes, we did this bad thing and knew what we were doing". That's another manipulation tactic.

Whenever people rally around a dictator or a tyrannical regime en masse, this mindset quoted above is usually the "logic" behind it: "He/They will save us, so we need to give up our freedoms if that's what they demand!"

I feel these politicians are doing the right thing; they don't have much choice except to play hardball when they are dealing with a bunch of nuts that don't care if their economy opens or not and don't care if they infect the rest of the rest of the population. What is more important; the whole economy or the few nut-jobs that want to see the whole economy fail. I would be fine with individuals not getting the vaccine if they sign a waiver stating they don't want hospitalization if they get sick and don't want any type of government assistance if they get sick.

The anti-vacc crowd often do care about the health of the economy. It depends on what type of anti-vacc crowd it is. Some are just nutjobs who think the vaccines implant a chip in you, some are worried about the safety of the vaccines and others just don't think it's particularly effective and want to carry on as life has been prior.

I started out being pro-vaccine for everyone but after seeing the limitations of the vaccine I'm only pro-vaccine for vulnerable groups. I'm also anti-lockdown.

I didn't don't see the point in vaccine passports when the vaccine does nothing at stopping it's spread. I especially dislike refusing others entry into hospitality venues based off having the vaccine.

When i first had the vaccine, I was hoping this Christmas would just like Christmas 4 years ago and the vaccine would have put the breaks on number of infections.......it hasn't and it's as bad as ever.

I personally find this a double-standard: the anti-vaxers say the governments are infringing on my rights by saying" I must get a vaccine" yet they still expect the same government to provide for them if they get sick

That can be applied to a lot of medical problems. If someone is clearly vulnerable then they should have the vaccine but I don't feel the young and healthy should be denied medical care of they happen to become ill with covid when the odds are so slim of coming to harm even without a vaccine.

Why not deny medical care to people who get into car accidents by negligence? Why not deny medical care to those with bowel cancer if they eat processed meats? What about people with obesity or smokers, what about slipping on an icy pavement, shouldn't the person have known better than to walk on it?

Most of the above scenarios are a far bigger danger for young people than covid and ones that are often self inflicted. Extrapolate that logic and you end up with a lot of people being denied medical care.

It's almost always black people in third world countries who are the group who don't want vaccines.

Why? Because a lot of black-dominated poorer countries are Christians & they see life through the lens of faith and it effects their physiology.

The placebo effect works in reverse - if you think something is bad for you, you'll likely have a negative reaction.

People aren't mere machines (though some people make themselves into machines) - they have all sorts of unquantifiable attributes that can't be put into scientific categories.

Scientific communication is limited by language. There are a finite amount of languages and a lot more scientific phenomena than languages that exist.

Apologies. That was a stupid thing to say.

Did you just quote yourself?

Do you think it would be better if the government just physically forced everyone to get vaccinated? Because all these ultamatums don't see any better so it seems that physically forcing everyone, is just quicker to get things back to as close to normal as they can be. I know it sounds harsh, but again, are all these desperate ultimatums any better really?

I wrote an essay on this subject and my thoughts, but I guess I'll just tl;dr it just to save everyone the pain (yeah, I lecture):

The vaccines and/or natural immunity won't stop SARS-CoV-2 and it's not going anywhere, SARS-CoV-2 isn't that bad overall, the outcome of SARS-CoV-2 will be mostly the same regardless of what happens, mandates and forced vaccinations are bad, as are governments, and we're all [mostly] just afraid and should probably be nicer to one another and try to understand where we all are, as we're all suffering to some extent.

You still believe that if everyone is vaccinated, things will go "back to normal" ? No, it's just more government oversight. They can forcefully vaccinate everyone and still keep up these ridiculous restrictions.

The problem isn't a virus. It's governmental abuse of power. You're saying we should let them abuse us further, because they might promise to stop abusing us in the long-run.

"Maybe it's a good thing to let daddy beat the crap out of me now, if he promises he'll never ever do it again in the future. So, maybe we should let daddy go crazy now, so that he's normal in the future." If daddy is doing this in the first place, something is wrong. It will never be normal. Amazed more people aren't shocked and disgusted by government abuse.

Have to say, I'm starting to agree with Smudge on the matter of mandatory vaccinations, though it seems to be going against popular opinion.

Here in Aus we are up to something like 90% of the eligible population fully vaccinated (2 shots) and booster shots are being actively encouraged. I have no issues with this, the more people vaccinated the better.

But in the last couple of months they've been been bringing in mandatory vaccinations in some sectors, such as health, aged care, and education. And it looks like other employers may follow suit. Seeing teachers (for example) losing their job because they don't feel comfortable with vaccination, and not just their job but their vocation (since the edict applies to all schools), doesn't sit right with me.

I also found it upsetting to see a colleague expressing hope that our sector would follow suit, which would (not stated in so many words but by my inference) get rid of all the selfish anti-vaxxers, and free up jobs for the right kind of people.

This is madness.

I mean, I tend towards the left on politics, which means I'm usually happy with the government using their powers for the greater good. But I'm also a Dumbledore fan - that is, wary of using "the greater good" to justify any and all means to an end. When those means are going to cause people suffering, you want to be dead certain the benefit outweighs the pain and the numbers stack up.

Do they?

90% vaccinated and yet we're having a huge upswing in covid cases. Does this mean:
(a) we must force the remaining 10% to toe the line and get vaccinated, or
(b) vaccination alone is not the solution to this pandemic.

Last night I had a call from my mother in the UK. She has tested positive for covid, despite having had 2 vaccinations and the booster shot. So it looks to me like the answer is (b).

What governments should be doing is encouraging safe behaviour such as mask-wearing and maintaining reasonable restrictions on non-essential indoor gatherings. Vaccinations should be encouraged also, for as long as there is evidence that they reduce the number of hospitalisations and deaths. Transparent statistics in this regard are essential, to educate those who might be hesitant. But forcing people who can't stand the idea of having a vaccination (for whatever reason) to make the choice between their bodily autonomy and their livelihood? No, I don't think this is a good way to go.