Mass stabbing in England during children's event

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cyberdad
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01 Aug 2024, 11:13 pm

Oh no :oops:



ASPartOfMe
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02 Aug 2024, 6:19 am

What we know about victims of dance studio attack

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Three young girls have died after a knife attack at a dance studio which left five other children and two adults in a critical condition in hospital.

Bebe King, 6, Elsie Dot Stancombe, 7, and Alice Dasilva Aguiar, 9, were killed in the stabbing in Southport on Monday.
The victims were named by Merseyside Police, who have arrested a 17-year-old boy on suspicion of murder and attempted murder.

In a tribute, a family member said Alice was "a happy smiley girl who had a bright life ahead of her", while Bebe's family said "no words" could describe the "loss of our little girl".

Bebe King, 6
The family of six-year-old Bebe King, the youngest of the three girls killed, has shared a tribute after her death.
They said "no words can describe the devastation that has hit our family as we try to deal with the loss of our little girl Bebe."

Marshside Primary School, where she was a pupil, was "deeply saddened by the awful news that we have lost one of our brightest and most wonderful shining stars", headteacher Natasha Sandland said.

“Words cannot do justice to describe the grief and upset our Marshside community are feeling today," she said.
The school community is focused on supporting her family and friends, school staff, and "our community who have been left numb by this tragic incident", Ms Sandland said.

Elsie Dot Stancombe, 7
Elsie Dot Stancombe, a pupil at Farnborough Road Infant School, has been described as "such a caring and charismatic young lady who loved to please" by her school.

In a tribute, headteacher Jennifer Sephton said Elsie had been a "loving and bright member of our wonderful community" since she was "first brought here on her father’s shoulders".

The school was "heartbroken and devastated" by her death, she added.
"We will miss you dearly Elsie. You were one of a kind."

Alice Dasilva Aguiar, 9
The family of Alice Dasilva Aguiar, who died from her injuries early on Tuesday, said in a tribute: "Keep smiling and dancing like you love to do our Princess, like we said before to you, you're always our princess and no one would change that.

"Love from Your Hero Daddy and Mummy."

Portugal Communities Minister Jose Cesario said his government would continue to give the family "the support they need".
In a TV interview in Portugal, he said the parents of the nine-year-old were in a "state of shock".

A crowdfunding page has been set up by the employers of one of Alice's parents, Benridge Care Group and Good Companions.

It said they were "completely stunned by the tragic loss of Alice".

"She has been a part of the Good Companions family since she was a baby."

Leanne Lucas, 35
Leanne Lucas, a 35-year-old yoga teacher, was described as in a “critical condition” in the aftermath of the mass stabbing.
Speaking to the BBC on Wednesday, her cousin Chris Rimmer called her a “hero” and said she had “shielded two girls” during the attack.

He said she was recovering but was “not out of the woods yet”.

Mr Rimmer said the family were “torn apart” by the ordeal but had congregated at home for comfort while Ms Lucas's mother, father and sister stayed at her bedside in hospital.

“Everyone sat in this house right now is just concentrating on getting her home and concentrating on her [recovering enough] that we can see her,” he added.

Jonathan Hayes
Jonathan Hayes, who runs a business next door to the dance studio where the attack took place, was in a critical condition after being stabbed in the leg.

From his hospital bed after undergoing major surgery, he told the BBC he was "saddened" he could not have done more to protect the victims.

Mr Hayes said he did not see himself as a hero, as some press reports were portraying him.

Instead, he said: "Some would say confronting a guy wielding a hunting knife is utter madness."

As he tried to step in to save children, he came under attack himself.

He had surgery on Tuesday and said he expected to be in hospital for some time because he currently "can't walk".

A spokeswoman for Alder Hey Children's Hospital in Liverpool said two of the seven children who had been admitted there for treatment remained in "critical care, but currently in a stable condition".

One adult remains in a critical condition after the North West Ambulance Service confirmed on Monday that victims were taken to Alder Hey, Royal Manchester Children's Hospital, Aintree University Hospital, Southport and Formby District General Hospital and Ormskirk District General Hospital.

Police have been granted more time to question a 17-year-old boy who has been in custody since he was arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder in Southport on Monday.


British prime minister announces policing plan to deal with violence after fatal stabbing of girls
Quote:
British Prime Minister Keir Starmer condemned the “tiny mindless minority” behind unrest that has plagued several cities after a horrific stabbing at a children’s dance class and vowed to put a stop to it as the 17-year-old suspect was named Thursday in part to counter misinformation blamed as one cause of the fiery clashes.

Starmer said the recent violence was “clearly driven by far-right hatred” as he announced a program enabling police to better share intelligence across agencies and move quickly to make arrests to prevent the kind of outbursts that have sent scores of police to the hospital the past two nights.

“This is coordinated; this is deliberate,” he said. “This is not a protest that has got out of hand. It is a group of individuals who are absolutely bent on violence.”

Far-right demonstrators — fueled, in part, by online misinformation — have held several violent protests, ostensibly in response to the attack, clashing with police outside a mosque in Southport on Tuesday and causing a melee near the prime minister’s office in London the next day.

Starmer put some of the blame on social media companies, though he didn’t announce any measures to address that and said there was a balance to be struck between the value they offer and the threat they can pose.

“Violent disorder, clearly whipped up online, that is also a crime. It’s happening on your premises,” he said.

Hundreds of protesters chanting “we want our country back” hurled beer cans and bottles near the prime minister’s Downing Street residence in London on Wednesday evening, and launched flares at a nearby statue of wartime leader Winston Churchill. More than 100 people were arrested for offenses including violent disorder and assault on an emergency worker, London’s Metropolitan Police force said.

Police officers were pelted with bottles and eggs in the town of Hartlepool in northeast England, where a police car was set ablaze. A smaller disturbance was reported in Manchester.

On Tuesday night, a crowd of several hundred people hurled bricks and bottles at riot police in Southport, set trash cans and vehicles on fire and looted a store, hours after a peaceful vigil for the stabbing victims. More than 50 officers were injured.


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Temeraire
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02 Aug 2024, 6:47 am

I was dreading this killer being associated with the ASD world.
When it was disclosed in the news I felt a little sick.
There will be even more speculation and negativity against autism in general by people who know nothing.
As far as mental health is concerned this is not what your average balance person would do.
It is not rocket science.
So very sad for the victims.



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02 Aug 2024, 7:03 am

cyberdad wrote:
How is this different from thomas Crooks? we knew his name within 24hrs
Axel Rudakubana is 17 years old - a minor, and therefore would not normally be named (although being just shy of his 18th birthday he was subsequently named in the hopes it would put an end to the speculation).
Thomas Crooks was 20, not a minor - and being in the USA, probably subject to different legislation.

cyberdad wrote:
the issue of whether news should identify specific details of a perpetrator (thomas Crooks or Axel Rudakubana) is irrelevant because the public want to know and news services what the public want.
It's not irrelevant at all.
What the public want to know is entirely different to what it should know and in most cases, having a name and a few details in the public domain generally fuels trial/vilification by media.

AIUI in Norway and possibly other European countries the accused is not named until they have been tried and found guilty.
Fat chance of that in the UK with its rabid gutter press.


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02 Aug 2024, 7:11 am

If this lad had done this in the US he'd be shot dead by now. Autistic or not.


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babybird
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02 Aug 2024, 7:22 am

f*****g hell Rossall! :lol:


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Rossall
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02 Aug 2024, 7:26 am

In the US he'd probably have used a gun rather than a knife and killed a lot more people as well.

If he ends up in a mental hospital he can count himself very lucky.


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Temeraire
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02 Aug 2024, 7:32 am

When he hits 18 next week there is a chance he will be put into a mainstream adult prison.
If he is considered mentally unfit for trial or it is used to mitigate his sentence then he will probably go to a mental facility and be examined and treated with lots of drugs and therapy. I hope something is learned from this.



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02 Aug 2024, 8:31 am

We'll have to wait and see the outcome

I don't know how long it will be before he goes to trial and if he pleads guilty it won't even go to trial anyway I don't think


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Rossall
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02 Aug 2024, 4:06 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnl0lkrxgvxo


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cyberdad
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02 Aug 2024, 6:05 pm

Cornflake wrote:
Axel Rudakubana is 17 years old - a minor, and therefore would not normally be named (although being just shy of his 18th birthday he was subsequently named in the hopes it would put an end to the speculation).
Thomas Crooks was 20, not a minor - and being in the USA, probably subject to different legislation.

I'm not sure if you read the Judge's statement?
“While I accept it is exceptional given his age, principally because he is 18 in six days’ time I do not make an order (to suppress the suspect’s identity).”

Cornflake wrote:
What the public want to know is entirely different to what it should know and in most cases, having a name and a few details in the public domain generally fuels trial/vilification by media.


And pray tell who decides when an incident is worthy or not worthy of being reported? a bureaucrat? a journalist? I understand there are journalistic standards that restrict identifying individuals before the police/authorities give the green light. But I see constant reminders of inequitable applications of regulations where victims faces and identities are openly publicised but perpetrators are protected. Again, the purpose of identifying perps is not to satisfy a "nosy public" its as quickly as possible reassure the public that a) acts of random violence or killing are isolated and not part of a wider nefarious planned attack and/or b) the profile of the person represents some type of conditioning/radicalisation that requires attention.



cyberdad
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02 Aug 2024, 6:14 pm

On a separate note (off topic): police and authorities should be required by law to report individuals at large who pose a risk to children. In the historic case; the killers of James Bolger (Robert thomson and Jon Venables) were permitted to live in public and form intimate relationships with people who had kids who has no idea they were child murderers.



JamesW
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03 Aug 2024, 5:03 am

Temeraire wrote:
I was dreading this killer being associated with the ASD world.
When it was disclosed in the news I felt a little sick.
There will be even more speculation and negativity against autism in general by people who know nothing.
As far as mental health is concerned this is not what your average balance person would do.
It is not rocket science.
So very sad for the victims.


Exactly. Being autistic doesn't make you stab people. It appears that the killer had severe mental health issues in general which weren't being looked after.

This isn't going to stop the idiots of course. The far-right aren't likely to be coming after autistic people just yet, though. We're at the back of a very long queue, behind visibly disabled people, trans, gay and LGBT people, Black, Asian and people of colour, immigrants, and women.



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03 Aug 2024, 6:44 am

cyberdad wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Axel Rudakubana is 17 years old - a minor, and therefore would not normally be named (although being just shy of his 18th birthday he was subsequently named in the hopes it would put an end to the speculation).
Thomas Crooks was 20, not a minor - and being in the USA, probably subject to different legislation.
I'm not sure if you read the Judge's statement?
“While I accept it is exceptional given his age, principally because he is 18 in six days’ time I do not make an order (to suppress the suspect’s identity).”
So we're in agreement. Glad we got that sorted out.

Quote:
Again, the purpose of identifying perps is not to satisfy a "nosy public" its as quickly as possible reassure the public that a) acts of random violence or killing are isolated and not part of a wider nefarious planned attack and/or b) the profile of the person represents some type of conditioning/radicalisation that requires attention.
But in all cases I can think of that's exactly what happens - a name is thrown to the "nosy public" like raw meat.

"acts of random violence or killing are isolated and not part of a wider nefarious planned attack" are by definition not part of a wider nefarious attack - it's why they're described as isolated acts of random violence.

"the profile of the person represents some type of conditioning/radicalisation that requires attention" But this is a law enforcement matter and not a matter of public information.
What would you suggest - copies of the intelligence agencies' reports, psychiatrists' reports and whatnot are made public?

Providing a name and a usually very scant background serves no useful purpose - or perhaps you can demonstrate how the meagre details provided thus far have reassured anyone?

I see today's front page of the Daily Mail is attempting to involve the BBC (another of their favorite bête noires) with "a video unearthed by the Mail", and I wouldn't be surprised to see faux outrage along the lines of "WHY didn't the BBC know?" any day now.
It's what they (and other rags) do and it's a typical result of too little information fuelling gossip and speculation.

Or do you think this is serving some constructive and helpful purpose, as opposed to being more fodder to add to the existing pile to ogle?

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03 Aug 2024, 6:53 am

cyberdad wrote:
On a separate note (off topic): police and authorities should be required by law to report individuals at large who pose a risk to children. In the historic case; the killers of James Bolger (Robert thomson and Jon Venables) were permitted to live in public and form intimate relationships with people who had kids who has no idea they were child murderers.
So having the law follow its course resulting in a punishment as fits the crime is no longer adequate?
You're advocating mob rule.

(BTW it's James Bulger)


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04 Aug 2024, 10:52 am

Far-right riots erupt in U.K. in the wake of child murders

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The United Kingdom woke up Sunday morning to city streets covered in debris and smoldering rubbish as a weekend of far-right, anti-immigration demonstrations — stoked by conspiracy theories spread on social media — erupted into violence in seven cities across the nation.

Police arrested at least 100 people, and riot police wearing helmets and holding shields came out in force as Prime Minister Keir Starmer pledged to take action against “extremists.”

On Saturday, groups in Leeds waving St. George’s Cross flags, England’s national flag regularly flown by far-right groups, shouted “Muslims off our streets,” pairing it with a slur suggesting they were criminal child abusers. In the city of Hull, rioters threw bottles and smashed a window at a hotel housing asylum-seekers as demonstrators clashed with police.

What started as targeted anti-immigration demonstrations quickly descended into directionless disorder. A library in Liverpool, reopened in 2023 as an “education to employment” service for people of all abilities, was set ablaze.

One police officer in the city was hit on the head with a chair and another kicked and knocked off his motorcycle. The police force responsible for the region has confirmed that two officers were taken to the hospital with injuries.

Starmer denounced the violence Saturday, saying that the right to freedom of expression and violent disorder were “two very different things,” adding that “there is no excuse for violence of any kind.”

Some of the protests did not turn violent. In the southwest city of Bristol, groups shouted “we want our country back,” while others chanted “England ‘til I die.” There were also clashes with counterprotesters singing “racist scum, off our streets.”

The latest demonstrations follow a week of riots in the country after three young girls were killed in a knife attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance party in the town of Southport. At the center of the demonstrations was a conspiracy theory, spread on social media, based on a lie that the perpetrator was Muslim, an asylum-seeker or both.

Less than three hours after the attack on the girls, AI-generated images were shared on X by an account called Europe invasion, depicting a man in traditional Muslim dress waving a knife outside the U.K.’s houses of Parliament. The post has since been viewed over 900,000 times.

A TikTok account with no previous content that called for protests near the attack site also amassed almost 60,000 views within hours, a spokesperson for Tech Against Terrorism told The Guardian.

And so the nation was only briefly united in mourning for the girls before their hometown of Southport was beset by violence as a group of mostly white men threw bottles and bricks at police officers and a mosque.

And in another sign of the far right’s effective online presence, the call to mobilize has been spearheaded by a number of influential figures who command a sizable following but are absent on the ground.

Founder of the far-right English Defence League Tommy Robinson — who last week fled Britain, where he was due to be in court over alleged contempt proceedings — was among the first to call for nationwide protests, urging his 800,000 X followers to “hit the streets.” Other online personalities such as internet influencer Andrew Tate, who remains in Romania as he prepares to stand trial on sex trafficking charges, said in a video on X that the attacker was an “illegal immigrant.”

More than 30 protests were planned for the weekend, and thousands of extra riot police are on standby with further demonstrations expected on Sunday.

About 100 demonstrators supporting refugees gathered early Sunday afternoon outside a hotel in Rotherham that is believed to house asylum-seekers, chanting “refugees are welcome here,” as groups opposing asylum-seekers threw objects at the hotel, smashing windows and setting fire to a garbage can. According to the BBC, at least one police officer has been injured.

While the center-left Labour Party recently won a landslide victory in the U.K.’s July elections, that leftward shift was paired with rising support for the far-right Reform U.K. party, which won 4 million votes.

And Labour’s success was at least partly down to the far right’s rising popularity, which split the right-wing vote, causing many Conservative lawmakers to lose their seats in Parliament.

The latest demonstrations puncture any idea that Starmer’s center-left government has evaded an ascendant hard-right movement that continues to rise on the continent. Behind his majority, there remains an angry and active far-right undercurrent that continues to make itself heard




Editors Note
When I started this thread I thought I was posting about an American type horror in the UK. I figured this would go the way threads about American mass shootings go. To our English members stay safe.


I take no pleasure but since this an autism forum note that the emphasis on migrants means that the suspects autism has gotten very little publicity and thus arguably a similar right wing uprising against autistics has not happened.

I also note that anti immigrant rhetoric from influential people and social media has been just as toxic here. While we have had hate crimes, nothing like the uprising in England has occurred in America yet. I am wondering if what is happening in England will inspire an anti immigrant uprising here.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 04 Aug 2024, 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.