Saudi man to be paralyzed as punishment

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OliveOilMom
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04 Apr 2013, 7:09 am

This is some serious punishment! I'm for the death penalty but strangely enough, this just makes me sick to think about.

Here is the link. Link to the story


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trollcatman
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04 Apr 2013, 8:37 am

What do you expect from crazy people? These idiots still crucify people. The Greeks used to divide the world into civilized people and barbarians... and they were right. The real problem is that the "civilized" world just lets this happen.
And about the death penalty and other cruel punishments... I find most people think it's ok for other people to be subjected to that. But what if you just happened to have an idiot son or an idiot sibling that ends up on death row? I can't image what it would be like to have your own child be executed by your own government.



Ancalagon
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04 Apr 2013, 8:54 am

trollcatman wrote:
And about the death penalty and other cruel punishments... I find most people think it's ok for other people to be subjected to that. But what if you just happened to have an idiot son or an idiot sibling that ends up on death row? I can't image what it would be like to have your own child be executed by your own government.

How is the death penalty cruel? Especially compared to paralyzing someone or putting them in jail for the rest of their lives.

Given the sort of thing you have to do to get executed in the country I live in, if I had a sibling end up on death row, I'd probably be more horrified by what they'd done than where they ended up.


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04 Apr 2013, 9:07 am

Ancalagon wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
And about the death penalty and other cruel punishments... I find most people think it's ok for other people to be subjected to that. But what if you just happened to have an idiot son or an idiot sibling that ends up on death row? I can't image what it would be like to have your own child be executed by your own government.

How is the death penalty cruel? Especially compared to paralyzing someone or putting them in jail for the rest of their lives.

Given the sort of thing you have to do to get executed in the country I live in, if I had a sibling end up on death row, I'd probably be more horrified by what they'd done than where they ended up.


So if your parent/child/sibling committed a horrible crime, would you rat them out? I think most people know that would be the right thing to do, but actually doing it seems to me really difficult (and I don't even have siblings or children).



ruveyn
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04 Apr 2013, 9:14 am

There goes you Muslim. Different mountain, different god.

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04 Apr 2013, 9:49 am

8O
I've never heard of that punishment over there before.



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04 Apr 2013, 9:53 am

These so called retribution cases sound very weird. I don't like the idea of having such an open ended justice system.



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04 Apr 2013, 10:24 am

For those of you who want to turn America into a Biblically based culture, take a good look, because the US will become just like Saudi Arabia, who despite having all the modern conviencies of any Western European culture, are still firmly rooted in what is essentially an unchanged version of the same culture that your Jesus was born into 2000 or so years ago.

Actually, Ruvyn, this actually IS the same god and the same mountain of the Jewish YHWH, albiet without the past 2000 years of changing, and moderation of doctrinal belief that Judaism, Christianity, and more liberal strains of Islam have progressed in.

Remember the old Judaic law of retribution via 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'? --This is the same put into practice.

Also, because of the fact that Saudi Arabia is the heart of the Islamic world, and they have plenty of oil money to fund Wahhabism/Salafism, their strain of Islam is quickly becoming the standard form of Islam. When they announce a Wahhabi/Salafi Califate, be very afraid.


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04 Apr 2013, 11:45 am

I don't want to turn it into a Biblically based culture at all, I just think that if you kill somebody on purpose, you should probably be put to death too because there's no telling who you'll kill next. Of course if it were my child I would think completely differently. Everything changes when it's your own child. You can forgive your child anything. However my ex husband is going to get the needle from Mississippi. That doesn't bother me a bit. He deserves it, he's done a lot of stuff to a lot of people and got away with it before he shot this one gang member and killed him.

The thing about this Saudi thing is that I could see doing it if the circumstances were different. If he had tortured the other guy and paralyzed him and all that, then I wouldn't have a problem with the punishment. But I doubt he meant to do that at the time, I mean they were just 14 years old! Also, I don't like the fact that whether or not they do that depends on if he can pay the fine. That's like the mob or something.

I also wonder how they will do it. Will they just get somebody to hurt him, hit him in the back or the neck with a tire iron, or are they actually going to take him into an OR and have a doctor open him up, sever his spinal cord, and then sew him back up and then they treat him like a regular patient. I just don't see doing that. Of course if he had kidnapped a 14 year old and tortured him then I would be all for the victims parents being given the tire iron and turned loose on him to do whatever they wanted until their arm got tired. I don't base that on anything Biblical, I base it on what I would want to do if somebody did that to my child. Again, if my child was the criminal I would feel differently. I admit that. That doesn't mean that I don't think it's a good law. It just means that when it comes to people I love, I'm a total hypocrite.


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04 Apr 2013, 12:27 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I don't want to turn it into a Biblically based culture at all, I just think that if you kill somebody on purpose, you should probably be put to death too because there's no telling who you'll kill next. Of course if it were my child I would think completely differently. Everything changes when it's your own child. You can forgive your child anything. However my ex husband is going to get the needle from Mississippi. That doesn't bother me a bit. He deserves it, he's done a lot of stuff to a lot of people and got away with it before he shot this one gang member and killed him.

The thing about this Saudi thing is that I could see doing it if the circumstances were different. If he had tortured the other guy and paralyzed him and all that, then I wouldn't have a problem with the punishment. But I doubt he meant to do that at the time, I mean they were just 14 years old! Also, I don't like the fact that whether or not they do that depends on if he can pay the fine. That's like the mob or something.

I also wonder how they will do it. Will they just get somebody to hurt him, hit him in the back or the neck with a tire iron, or are they actually going to take him into an OR and have a doctor open him up, sever his spinal cord, and then sew him back up and then they treat him like a regular patient. I just don't see doing that. Of course if he had kidnapped a 14 year old and tortured him then I would be all for the victims parents being given the tire iron and turned loose on him to do whatever they wanted until their arm got tired. I don't base that on anything Biblical, I base it on what I would want to do if somebody did that to my child. Again, if my child was the criminal I would feel differently. I admit that. That doesn't mean that I don't think it's a good law. It just means that when it comes to people I love, I'm a total hypocrite.


I can't help but wonder how much your own views are influenced by your knowledge of your ex-husband? Does his situation make you more sanguine about the death penalty?


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04 Apr 2013, 1:29 pm

Perhaps one reason that Muslim countries are still willing to execute for the most serious crimes is that they simply cannot feed and care for prisoners who would deserve life sentences.

They cannot even feed their own people, and their medical care is largely nonexistent for the poor.

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04 Apr 2013, 3:06 pm

Sylkat wrote:
Perhaps one reason that Muslim countries are still willing to execute for the most serious crimes is that they simply cannot feed and care for prisoners who would deserve life sentences.

They cannot even feed their own people, and their medical care is largely nonexistent for the poor.

Sylkat


I was about to ask if Saudi Arabia had ever heard of just incarcerating people.

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naturalplastic
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04 Apr 2013, 3:27 pm

Sylkat wrote:
Perhaps one reason that Muslim countries are still willing to execute for the most serious crimes is that they simply cannot feed and care for prisoners who would deserve life sentences.

They cannot even feed their own people, and their medical care is largely nonexistent for the poor.

Sylkat


A plausible theory for some muslim countries. But not oil rich Saudi Arabia which executes more people than even most other muslim countries.

Muslim countries differ from each other in how severely they deploy the death penalty- and it has more to do with ideology ( both how much and which kind of islam they put in the legal mix) than with wealth. And many muslim countries had secular dictators who would execute you for secular reasons (like Saddam Hussein, and Assad).

How poor muslim countries compare to poor nonmuslim countries (like the pagan/christian nations of subsaharan africa) in use of the death penalty- i dont know.



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04 Apr 2013, 3:36 pm

Oil rich, perhaps. But that still leaves a huge services gap. The government is increasingly incapable of meeting the needs of Saudi citizens, and Royal family members are increasingly called upon to intervene through their various majalis to resolve issues in which the bureaucracy has failed or is powerless to act.


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04 Apr 2013, 4:02 pm

trollcatman wrote:
So if your parent/child/sibling committed a horrible crime, would you rat them out?

That's a completely different question, and I don't know what I'd end up doing. My parents and siblings (I don't have kids) are genuinely nice people, so I can't see them actually doing anything that terrible in the first place.


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OliveOilMom
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04 Apr 2013, 4:10 pm

visagrunt wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I don't want to turn it into a Biblically based culture at all, I just think that if you kill somebody on purpose, you should probably be put to death too because there's no telling who you'll kill next. Of course if it were my child I would think completely differently. Everything changes when it's your own child. You can forgive your child anything. However my ex husband is going to get the needle from Mississippi. That doesn't bother me a bit. He deserves it, he's done a lot of stuff to a lot of people and got away with it before he shot this one gang member and killed him.

The thing about this Saudi thing is that I could see doing it if the circumstances were different. If he had tortured the other guy and paralyzed him and all that, then I wouldn't have a problem with the punishment. But I doubt he meant to do that at the time, I mean they were just 14 years old! Also, I don't like the fact that whether or not they do that depends on if he can pay the fine. That's like the mob or something.

I also wonder how they will do it. Will they just get somebody to hurt him, hit him in the back or the neck with a tire iron, or are they actually going to take him into an OR and have a doctor open him up, sever his spinal cord, and then sew him back up and then they treat him like a regular patient. I just don't see doing that. Of course if he had kidnapped a 14 year old and tortured him then I would be all for the victims parents being given the tire iron and turned loose on him to do whatever they wanted until their arm got tired. I don't base that on anything Biblical, I base it on what I would want to do if somebody did that to my child. Again, if my child was the criminal I would feel differently. I admit that. That doesn't mean that I don't think it's a good law. It just means that when it comes to people I love, I'm a total hypocrite.


I can't help but wonder how much your own views are influenced by your knowledge of your ex-husband? Does his situation make you more sanguine about the death penalty?


No, not at all. I've always been for the death penalty. This didn't happen with my ex until a few years ago. My views on it have nothing to do with him. I feel that when a person kills someone on purpose, and it's not a situation where the person they killed "needed killing" (ie; they shoot somebody who has molested their child, or raped their wife or mother or something like that) then they are obviously not safe to be around and probably never will be so execute them. I also think that if we used the death penalty more often and much sooner after the conviction then it would actually act as a deterrent. As it is now there is no guarantee or even a high probability that a murderer will get the needle and if he is sentenced to it, it happens so far down the road that thinking about getting killed 20 or 30 years from now wouldn't really stop somebody if they are determined. I truly believe that if we have a speedy and certain death penalty that is used for all murder cases that fit certain criteria (and not things that will be rare, but the types of murder that are common) that after people start seeing that it really will happen, and soon too, it would deter a whole lot of people. Not everybody, but I think murder would really drop off.


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