Antibodies from mothers of autistics cause autism in monkeys

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zendell
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20 Feb 2008, 6:55 pm

Researchers exposed monkeys to IgG antibodies from mothers of children with ASDs and the monkeys consistently demonstrated autism symptoms. Antibodies from mothers of normal children did not cause autism symptoms. The researchers concluded, "These findings support the potential for an autoimmune etiology in a subgroup of patients with neurodevelopmental disorders. This research raises the prospect of prenatal evaluation for neurodevelopmental risk factors and the potential for preventative therapeutics."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18262386



TrueDave
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21 Feb 2008, 1:56 am

How about a video?

I want to see these AS behaviors.

Please :)



KimJ
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21 Feb 2008, 2:23 am

How does "stereotypies" and "hyperactivity" equate autism?



zendell
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21 Feb 2008, 5:51 pm

KimJ wrote:
How does "stereotypies" and "hyperactivity" equate autism?


They are symptoms of autism that can be observed in monkeys.



zendell
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21 Feb 2008, 5:52 pm

TrueDave wrote:
How about a video?

I want to see these AS behaviors.

Please :)


I'd like to see a video too but I don't think they have one. I think I might want an autistic pet if I could find one.



beau99
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21 Feb 2008, 7:17 pm

zendell wrote:
I'd like to see a video too but I don't think they have one. I think I might want an autistic pet if I could find one.

Autistic pets have existed for many years.

They're called cats.


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greendeltatke
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21 Feb 2008, 7:42 pm

KimJ wrote:
How does "stereotypies" and "hyperactivity" equate autism?


The researchers don't claim that they do. translatingautism.com gives a really good summary.



AspieDave
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21 Feb 2008, 9:10 pm

Autistic freakin monkeys.....

boooyah

Let's see.... considering typical monkey behavior patterns, when you show me monkeys that can build fires, smelt metal and make AK-47's I MIGHT tentatively agree the are display AUTISTIC traits.... since autostimming through masturbation and competitive feces throwing are TYPICAL monkey behaviors, I don't accept those as proof of autism in the primate.

They're freakin MONKEYS... sheesh... if somebody wants to study autistics, try working with a human. Or a republican.


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KimJ
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21 Feb 2008, 9:58 pm

I know the abstract doesn't say the monkeys are autistic. The title of the thread does. That's my point. Some symptoms do not equate "autism".



sojournertruth
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22 Feb 2008, 3:04 am

It didn't say whether those observing the monkeys were 'blind' to which group they were in, and I'd like to see some actual numbers and larger groups for more statistical significance.

However, this *is* an interesting study and I'll be interested in seeing the idea pursued.



slowmutant
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22 Feb 2008, 8:55 am

An autistic monkey would not survive in a normal monkey troop. If he failed to groom his family-members properly, or did not allow himself to be groomed by the others, I bet dollars to donuts they would reject the poor little guy-- violently. From what I understand of primate culture, if you can't or won't participate in a culture whose very glue is physical contact, you are f***ed.



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22 Feb 2008, 11:03 am

Correct... including the 5th species of "Great Ape".... humans.


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zendell
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22 Feb 2008, 1:12 pm

KimJ wrote:
I know the abstract doesn't say the monkeys are autistic. The title of the thread does. That's my point. Some symptoms do not equate "autism".


Quotes from the study:
"Autism...is characterized by...the presence of stereotyped behaviors"

"Rhesus monkeys gestationally exposed to IgG class antibodies from mothers of children with ASD consistently demonstrated increased whole-body stereotypies across multiple testing paradigms..."

The researchers looked at one symptom of autism that was easiest to identify in monkeys. They monkeys weren't born autistic. They developed autism (or at least one of the symptoms) after they were exposed to antibodies from mothers of autistic children. That is evidence that the mother's antibodies caused autism. That is why the researchers concluded, "These findings support the potential for an autoimmune etiology in a subgroup of patients with neurodevelopmental disorders."



KimJ
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22 Feb 2008, 1:34 pm

Quote:
Rhesus monkeys gestationally exposed to IgG class antibodies from mothers of children with ASD consistently demonstrated increased whole-body stereotypies across multiple testing paradigms.


Gestionally exposed means they were exposed prenatally, then they were born with said traits. Which supports theories already in use, such as ASDs may be the result of genetics and/or prenatal hormonal disturbance.

None of the controls (untreated and treated after birth) are said to be exhibiting said traits. Only the ones treated prenatally.



sojournertruth
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23 Feb 2008, 2:43 pm

All of them were treated prenatally. One group was prenatally exposed to IgG from mothers of AS kids, one group was prenatally exposed to IgG from mothers of NT kids, and one group wasn't exposed to any human IgG.

Monkeys are expensive to get both in terms of dollar cost and in terms of permission-to-research, hence the low number (4) in each group; I'd be interested to see this experiment repeated with larger numbers and with a species more closely related to humans. These results aren't very significant in and of themselves, but they are definitely interesting enough to justify looking further.



KimJ
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23 Feb 2008, 7:50 pm

Quote:
To provide evidence for this hypothesis, four rhesus monkeys were exposed prenatally to human IgG collected from mothers of multiple children diagnosed with ASD. Four control rhesus monkeys were exposed to human IgG collected from mothers of multiple typically developing children. Five additional monkeys were untreated controls


It makes more sense if all monkeys were given the IgG prenatally but I took the 2nd group's description literally. It doesn't say specifically that they were treated prenatally but says, "were exposed. . . ". But it doesn't change the fact that the monkeys exposed prenatally to the igG anitibodies from mothers of ASD children were the only monkeys that were born with said traits. And that was my point because zendell said the opposite that none were "born autistic".