[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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Jono
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14 Nov 2023, 4:41 pm

I see that people have been skeptical about this video release by the IDF, purportedly showing how Hamas used the basement of a children's hospital to store weapons and detain hostages. Is anyone here able to give a alternative explanation about what the IDF soldier is showing here?



The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Nov 2023, 5:18 pm

It wouldn't surprise me.

A base under the hospital is a perfect hideout, I think hospital equipment help to conceal them from army scanners?

One thing tho: at the very end of the videos, what's written in the calendar boxes are not person names, it's simply days names ie. Monday, Tuesday....!



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14 Nov 2023, 5:42 pm

Hamas under hospitals has been in the news for weeks. Makes sense. If you’re willing to use innocent civilians as human shields, why not doctors and nurses too?

I know if I were Hamas that’s exactly where I’d be. Best stay alive strategy possible in that place.. get beneath the buildings least likely to be levelled.

They’d almost be stupid Not to have dug their tunnels and made hideouts under hospitals, really.

Now for IDF to find all the entrances and smoke them out.. ? Maybe.


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14 Nov 2023, 7:59 pm

Israeli Minister Admits Military Is Carrying Out ‘Nakba’ Against Gaza’s Palestinians

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An Israeli cabinet official has publicly admitted to the government’s ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, saying on television over the weekend that the country is “rolling out the Gaza Nakba.”

On Saturday, security cabinet member and Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter sat for a television interview with an Israeli news network. Dichter is part of the right-wing nationalist Likud party, which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu chairs.

“We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba,” Dichter said when asked if the recent images of northern Gaza residents evacuating south are comparable to images of the 1948 Nakba.

“From an operational point of view, there is no way to wage a war ― as the IDF seeks to do in Gaza ― with masses between the tanks and the soldiers,” he continued, according to a translation of the interview by Haaretz.

The Nakba, which in Arabic means “catastrophe,” refers to the mass displacement and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Palestine was considered a multi-ethnic society until the tension between Arab and Jewish people rose as a result of both Jews migrating to flee persecution in Europe, as well as the Zionist movement attempting to establish a Jewish ethnostate in Palestine.

The tension escalated to war in 1948 after the UN General Assembly’s resolution trying to partition Palestine into two states was rejected a year earlier. The war resulted in the permanent displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians by the newly formed Israeli forces.

Despite the UN calling for Palestinian refugee return and property restitution, Israel has continued to deny the rights of Palestinians and carry out an apartheid for 75 years. The anniversary of the Nakba serves as a painful acknowledgment of the generational and ongoing trauma that Palestinians face both on their occupied land and outside the region.

“Gaza Nakba 2023,” Dichter said. “That’s how it’ll end.”

When later asked if labeling the current forced evacuation a Nakba means Palestinians won’t be able to return to Gaza City, Dichter said: “I don’t know how it’ll end up happening since Gaza City is one-third of the Strip ― half the land’s population but a third of the territory.”

Israel’s monthlong siege on Gaza has killed more than 11,000 people and displaced millions. Israeli forces told Palestinians to evacuate northern Gaza to avoid being killed, though several areas in the southern region have also been bombed.

On Friday, Netanyahu said that he wants “full security control” of Gaza with the power to “enter whenever we want” to kill who Israel perceives to be enemies.


They're openly telling us their plans. Apparently when we said never again, we didn't really mean it.


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15 Nov 2023, 1:35 am

goldfish21 wrote:
They’d almost be stupid Not to have dug their tunnels and made hideouts under hospitals, really.

Now for IDF to find all the entrances and smoke them out.. ? Maybe.


HAMAS will never give up the hostages. The moment they do, the IDF will level the entire GAZA.



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15 Nov 2023, 1:46 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Apparently when we said never again, we didn't really mean it.

That was about genocide.

All of the Israeli war plans I’ve seen any mention of pertain to exiling people from the land bordering Israel to create a physical geographical buffer zone free from terrorists bombing Israel.

Kinda makes sense, doesn’t it? I mean who wants neighbours that are firing rockets at them.


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Last edited by goldfish21 on 15 Nov 2023, 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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15 Nov 2023, 1:51 am

goldfish21 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Apparently when we said never again, we didn't really mean it.

That was about genocide.

All of the Israeli war plans I’ve seen any mention of pertain to exiling people from the land bordering Israel to create a physical geographical buffer zone free from terrorist bombing Israel.

Kinda makes sense, doesn’t it? I mean who wants neighbours that are firing rockets at them.


So, ethnic cleansing is acceptable, so long as it's the threat of murder, rather than murder being used as the primary means of committing it?


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15 Nov 2023, 3:04 am

funeralxempire wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Apparently when we said never again, we didn't really mean it.

That was about genocide.

All of the Israeli war plans I’ve seen any mention of pertain to exiling people from the land bordering Israel to create a physical geographical buffer zone free from terrorist bombing Israel.

Kinda makes sense, doesn’t it? I mean who wants neighbours that are firing rockets at them.


So, ethnic cleansing is acceptable, so long as it's the threat of murder, rather than murder being used as the primary means of committing it?

Is it an ethnic cleansing if an ethnicity isn’t being “cleansed,” (killed) from the Earth?

Is exile from a land the same thing? Or is it simply shooing them away from your doorstep? And by them I don’t mind “different looking people with more melanated skin,” but rather “terrible neighbours that keep terrorizing your citizens with rocket assaults.”


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15 Nov 2023, 4:16 am

MaxE wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Solution should be: two states + UNIFEL and multinational forces in the middle + a big thick wall.

A two state solution is never going to happen, and the reason has to do with the Palestinian view of their situation. For the Palestinians, a two state solution would mean conceding part of their ancestral homeland to the Jews in perpetuity. They have already shown that they will never accept this.

Agreed that a 2-state solution probably can never work, but for many more reasons than you've indicated, having to do with Israeli (not just Palestinian) unwillingness to give up any part of the land.

MaxE wrote:
I will add that the Palestinians have become so intransigent in their beliefs, because from every direction they get the message that the world supports them in this. Compare them to the Germans, who lost the Eastern third of their territory in WWII and have come to accept this. Not to mention the Mexicans, who lost a huge chunk of the Northern part of their country to the US and for some reason seem to have come to terms with that, despite having no reason to think they deserved that (unlike the Germans!).

Very different situations:

1) If I'm not mistaken, the relevant chunk of Mexico was inhabited mainly by indigenous Americans, who, as far as I am aware, weren't exactly much fonder of the idea of being ruled over by Spaniards/Mexicans than they were of being ruled over by the U.S.A. In any case, as far as I am aware, whole big bunches of them weren't forced to emigrate to Mexico specifically, although they ended up being deprived of land in other ways.

2) Germany was able to absorb many of the Germans displaced after World War II, thanks to the Marshall Plan.

3) Huge numbers of Palestinians suddenly lost their homes, in 1948, NOT at the end of a protracted war in which the Palestinians themselves had fought, but merely for the crime of fleeing from their homes to get out of harm's way for what they thought would be a very brief time. (The only Palestinians who were allowed to become citizens of Israel were the few who could prove that they had been "present" in their homes on a particular day.)


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Jono
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15 Nov 2023, 4:19 am

goldfish21 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Apparently when we said never again, we didn't really mean it.

That was about genocide.

All of the Israeli war plans I’ve seen any mention of pertain to exiling people from the land bordering Israel to create a physical geographical buffer zone free from terrorist bombing Israel.

Kinda makes sense, doesn’t it? I mean who wants neighbours that are firing rockets at them.


So, ethnic cleansing is acceptable, so long as it's the threat of murder, rather than murder being used as the primary means of committing it?

Is it an ethnic cleansing if an ethnicity isn’t being “cleansed,” (killed) from the Earth?

Is exile from a land the same thing? Or is it simply shooing them away from your doorstep? And by them I don’t mind “different looking people with more melanated skin,” but rather “terrible neighbours that keep terrorizing your citizens with rocket assaults.”


There isn't an official definition of ethnic cleansing in international law or at the UN. However, mass deportations of an ethnic population can be considered ethnic cleansing according the definitions that I've seen.



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15 Nov 2023, 4:21 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Is it an ethnic cleansing if an ethnicity isn’t being “cleansed,” (killed) from the Earth?

Ethnic cleansing is a more general term than genocide. Ethnic cleansing does include forced migration.

The only solution to the Israel/Palestine situation that would NOT involve any ethnic cleansing would be a single united Israel-Palestine with equal rights for everyone.


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15 Nov 2023, 4:21 am

Interesting commentary and history lesson:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... tid=SG4FX6

Cliffs: This guy says the world needs to stop enabling Israel to commit war crimes, the Hamas ideology will live on, even if Israel kills them all they’ll be martyrs and the next batch will be even stronger and more determined.. so, the best way forward is a peace deal and sharing the land between both peoples.

A lot of it makes perfect sense. Some of it is too simplistic, though.. people are complex. I’d bet a dollar that they all fight until eventually one side conquers the other (and no one prevails, they fight forever) vs there being a peace deal and land sharing agreement that sustains itself long term.


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Jono
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15 Nov 2023, 4:22 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me.

A base under the hospital is a perfect hideout, I think hospital equipment help to conceal them from army scanners?

One thing tho: at the very end of the videos, what's written in the calendar boxes are not person names, it's simply days names ie. Monday, Tuesday....!


I've seen that chart being described as just a simple calendar, which is why I was wondering about it. I can't read Arabic though, so I'll defer to others.



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15 Nov 2023, 4:31 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Is it an ethnic cleansing if an ethnicity isn’t being “cleansed,” (killed) from the Earth?

Ethnic cleansing is a more general term than genocide. Ethnic cleansing does include forced migration.

The only solution to the Israel/Palestine situation that would NOT involve any ethnic cleansing would be a single united Israel-Palestine with equal rights for everyone.


Or they can just end the occupation of the West Bank and transfer the administration of this illegal settlements to the Palestinians with the settlers either having to move back into Israel proper or have to get visa to have permission to live in Palestine. Sadly, I am actually not confident that a one state solution won't just lead to mass pogroms and genocide against the Jews in Israel, like what happened to the Tutsi's in Rwanda in 1994. Rwanda, prior to 1994 was also supposed to be an equal rights democracy with a majority Hutu population.



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15 Nov 2023, 7:16 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
The only solution to the Israel/Palestine situation that would NOT involve any ethnic cleansing would be a single united Israel-Palestine with equal rights for everyone.


The reason this conflict will remain unresolved is that neither party would be willing to accommodate the other. israel want a buffer to protect it's own citizens, the Palestinians ultimately want their land back. Two-states are the only solution.



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15 Nov 2023, 8:06 am

If it were me I would dissolve the current Israeli state and reestablish it somewhere actually uninhabited so they can stop bothering people, but that won't happen.


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