[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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So you're justifying Hamas launching a terrorist attack on Israel, murdering 1100 people, raping plenty, taking a couple hundred hostages etc because ___ ? and Israel isn't supposed to counter-attack because ___ ? Not really sure how you justify siding with terrorists & rapists in this conflict.

That's the thing. Hamas doesn't seem to be trying to organize an effective state At All. Their entire stated purpose is to attack Israel. They're a terrorist organization of religious fanatics, not a serious government. Their entire purpose is to f**k around.. and they did on October 7th.. and now they're in the find out portion of what happens next.

What gives any country the right to keep stealing land? Might. Military might. That's been the way of the world since before recorded history. Canada did it. USA is still doing it. China is doing it. England did it for centuries. France, too. And Spain. Russia is doing it right now, too. Damned near every country with the capability to do it has done it or is doing it. Why should Israel be treated as some special case that shouldn't settle neighbouring land when that's Exactly what all of the countries we're from have done for our countries' entire existences? Israel isn't particularly special by any means in this regard. Not sure why the entire world is expected to wave our fingers at them and tell them they're not allowed to do what Most countries have done and many others are currently doing.

In this story, it seems they are the conqueror and they're winning some literal ground. Of course the people losing territory aren't happy about it - same same as every conquered people and land in the history of forever. Winners, losers, and deals for energy & mineral rights + military base installations. Big world stuff like that.

Hamas wouldn't be an issue at all if Israel had of allowed the Palestinians to form a national military.

Israel is dealing with the consequences of their own actions, forgive me for advocating they try something that won't encourage further consequences.

Meanwhile your position boils down to might makes right, Israel is entitled to engage in all the ethnic cleansing they'd like because no one will stop them. Your position is that of a monster, you're no different from the right wingers you've often condemned.

Pretty much, Israel allows basically nothing into Gaza via their blockade and brutalizes the residents there.

Really, the only defensible position to take is that Hamas is terrorists and the Israeli government is a bunch of war criminals. Both civilian populations are tired of the bloodshed and would accept some sort of negotiated peace just to be done with the bloodshed.

I never said it’s ideal. I said it is what it is.

None of these people are going to stop fighting with each other. So, we either watch them keep killing each other Or see them try something different - like a buffer zone no man’s land so they can’t reach each other to attack so easily.

Eh, mostly just pointing out that your shaming and moralizing only work if people care about the labels you're throwing around, that you don't have much of an argument without the rhetorical cudgel. It's a common failing of leftists, this weird fixation on language as if it creates reality rather than reflecting it, that if the language can be controlled then so can the reality.

Personally, I think relocating the Palestinians is one of the better options on the table, given how long this whole thing has been going on, but if you insist on poisoning the discourse with labels and moralizing, well then I guess it's up to everyone to decide how much they care what you think.

Israel have evacuated settlements from Sinai and Gaza before, Have you thought about whether a strong Palestinian state might also mean an a fully armed HAMAS militia. Once the hostages are returned then HAMAS must allow a third party (perhaps UN peacekeepers) to demilitarise Gaza, The only purpose for an armed militia in Gaza is to attack Israel,

I googled "soyjak Chad" just now, and saw some stuff about "memes," but I am totally lost as to what these memes are all about, much less their relevance to the issue at hand. And I suspect I'm far from the only person here who is unfamiliar with whatever online subculture these memes are a part of. Could you please explain?

Be that as it may, here is some info about the meaning of "ethnic cleansing":

- United Nations
- Encyclopedia Britannica
- Wikipedia


Agreed, that's no excuse not to call a spade a spade.

Has anyone suggested that Israel stop committing war crimes and Hamas stop being terrorists yet? Just checking. Might be the simplest solution. But if they've already been asked and neither has decided to do that, then maybe physical distance between them could be worth trying.

Do tell how one "peacefully" negotiates with somebody who is firing rockets into your home?

Your comment seems unrelated to my quoted post.

I've never said Israel shouldn't be counter-attacking Hamas.

Only that Israel shouldn't be committing war crimes while they war.

You mean "somebody who is firing rockets at their OWN home that you stole from them.

Well ...for starters Israel could stop stealing even more land in the West Bank for settlers.

But Netanyahu already made a career out of allying himself to HAMAS against the PLO (who does have a history of negotiating with Israel) so you're probably right that Bibi screwed both sides out of any possibility of negotiations. The future now probably belongs to the extremist hardliners of both nationalities- ergo no peace.

As far as I can tell, this would not be acceptable to the vast majority of Palestinians, nor would it be acceptable to the vast majority of the world's Muslims to allow this to happen. (Nor, I suspect, would it be acceptable to the Catholic Church to allow all of Palestine's traditional Christians to be expelled.)

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 15 Nov 2023, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Assuming a. hostages are returned and b. HAMAS is dismantled then this proposal would be reasonable.

Did anyone try and stop the US when they killed 190-210,000 Iraqi civilians hunting Saddam? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualtie ... e_Iraq_War

Or Saudi Arabi when they killed 377,000 civilians while hunting the Houthi rebels in Yemen
https://caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-armin ... civilians/

It seems Israel hasn't quite reached those dizzying numbers yet

Past atrocities do not make the current situation less bad.

Many are and were highly critical of past conflicts. I’m not sure why you’re bringing this argument up again.

I was responding to goldfish that one can't defend themselves or negotiate peacefully while they are being peppered with rockets. Logistically Israel is not doing anything worse than the USA or Saudi Arabia in taking out terrorists. Also logistically it is next to impossible to not have civilian casualties.