Non-transgender Men Being Allowed In Women's Bathroom!

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I wasn't specifically responding to you, just to the thread in general.
In my area, there is a lawsuit pending in which a transsexual student is suing to use the female showers. How is it suddenly acceptable for schoolgirls to be forced to look at naked male bodies? A transsexual female may have a female brain, but all the visible parts of her anatomy are male. There is no such thing as female penises and testicles.
And if we say that SOME penises may be shown to women without their consent, then why not ALL penises? Why not all vaginas and breasts? Let everyone walk around naked, since no one has the right not to see anyone else's genitals, ever.

How many schools even have communal showers nowadays?

The only time I remember I ever remember going into the showers in high school was during a tornado drill.

And YippySkippy, if you ask me I would get rid of communal showers in school all together. Unless there are individual stalls or something.

oops my bad

But maybe showering is a different matter and discussion, it a hard one ( so to speak! ok, failed humour yet again!) as there are males that have had full reversals which includes removal of penis for a vagina and from what i have researched seems pretty convincing. so would that be the same as a male that hasnt had the reversal? I have to honestly admit, in this case i am somewhat divided when it comes to the more intimate part of showering, a toilet cubicle is one thing, but full nudity is another, even women in sports that use communal showers can feel uncomfortable around other women as is with men.. Even here we have a rugby team, and one member was a heterosexual female that used the mens showers at times at the same time ( certain rugby clubs dont have separate showers) and yes this did make me feel somewhat uncomfortable, but that was more induced by some of her advances that i was not interested in.. Also a few of the men also felt the same and some didnt care at all.. So yes, as some have mentioned, i think there is a limit to how far things go, but at what point is the controversial question. but then how would you feel for a lesbian woman sharing the same shower unit or a gay man sharing the same showers? is it down to a sexual narrative or the fact that male and female bodies differ and despite a male having a reversal as long as they look female then its ok?

again i think i was taken out of context, im talking about using bathrooms, not communal showering!

No I know what you were saying. I just wanted to comment on that side issue.

dangit! seems my expertise about reading between the lines and understanding whats actually directed at myself is somewhat more flawed than i had realized!

In my area, the high school showers are communal (one big room, no curtains). And some of the public schools have swimming pools, and mandatory swim classes. That means people have to strip naked at some point in order to participate in the class. The girls' lockerroom has only two or three bathroom stalls, so there isn't space or time for everyone to change in them. It's basically a horrible experience even when there are only anatomical girls in there. I can't imagine forcing 14 and 15 year old girls to strip down right next to someone with male sex organs. And I can't imagine why someone who was truly transsexual would want to, either. But someone does.

The middle school I would have attended in Washington if we didn't move did not have any curtains. That is what we were informed in 6th grade and showers were mandatory in middle school because they didn't want smelly kids in class and there would be PE uniforms. Yeah I did start to hate PE because it got sporty than fun games like crab soccer or clean out he back yard and trying to get across the gym without touching the floor, traffic jam, what time is it mister fox, duck duck goose, circle run. PE was actually my favorite school activity until I got to puberty because it started to change and all the fun games were taken away.

But in high school the girl's locker rooms had curtains but not boys. As if the boys wouldn't care if they show their geneticals but girls would care about showing their pubic hair and breasts? And showers were not mandatory, you could do a sponge bath. In middle school I had attended after the move, they didn't have any locker rooms so we just went to PE and did sports and then we were done, no changing and showering and we wore our regular clothes.

Speaking of locker rooms, I am sure a transgender wouldn't be comfortable dressing and undressing in there so they might request a private area to undress anyway and to shower privately. I don't think they would want someone to know their "true" gender.

There is a transgender student in my area suing to change in the female locker room. People are threatening to pull their daughters out of school over it.

In my middle school and high school we had locker rooms to change into gym clothes (which were mandatory). There were showers in there but they stopped using them along time ago.

Anyway it was extremely uncomfortable for me just to change for gym around all those people (not to mention how much I hated the uniforms). So I couldn't imagine being made to shower with my classmates. There is no way I would have done that.

When it come to that one particular lawsuit, I think the cats out of the bag. But generally when changing for gym in schools you keep your underclothing on so I don't think it will be too revealing for the most part.

I wish there was a poll I could find among middle and high school students over the school bathroom issue. I would be willing to bet that the parents are way more upset about it than the students. I bet like 75% of the students don't care.

I don't know about that. Kids going through puberty are often very shy about their bodies - much more so than adults. A lot of them might be mortified by the idea of someone with different genitals in their bathroom, but kids that age are also extremely vulnerable to social influence and pressure. They're likely to say whatever they think society is telling them to say, especially if they think saying it means adults will stop talking about the subject.

When I was in secondary school we were all given a letter saying showers were now mandatory in PE, but none of us (well, among the guys anyways -- I don't know what the girls did but I would guess it was the same) ever took showers and none of the teachers ever said anything about it. Nobody ever removed undergarments, some people changed in the bathroom stalls, some guys wouldn't even remove their shirts in view of anyone else (we had mandatory swimming in PE, and several of my male classmates wore shirts in the pool -- some of us changed into and out of our swim shorts underneath towels in the locker room, others used bathroom stalls or changing cubicles).

I suspect that gender segregated bathrooms and locker rooms only make sense if you believe that nudity or semi-nudity are inherently sexual as long as you are in the presence/vicinity of someone of the opposite sex, and that everyone is heterosexual. (If that isn't the reason, then what is?)

Based on the above, I think it's fascinating that so many people would be horrified to change/use the bathroom in the same room as someone who is [same gender; heterosexual; different genitals], but totally okay with changing in the same room as someone who is [same gender; homosexual; same genitals].....it just doesn't make any sense, if the issue boils down to worries about sexual attraction. (Also, you have to think about the fact that homosexuals use bathrooms and locker rooms all the time and the vast majority aren't in there ogling people or doing anything else inappropriate -- the situation isn't made sexual just by virtue of the fact that you experience sexual attraction towards people of the same gender.....I don't know why it would be different for heterosexual people using non-segregated locker rooms or bathrooms.)

I am curious what people's opinions are when it comes to individuals with ambiguous genitalia? Not every person born with ambiguous genitalia is given "corrective" surgery (as in, not medically necessary and just done so that the baby looks normal) in infancy (thank god) and not all of them will choose to have that sort of surgery when they are older, so should people with ambiguous genitalia be forbidden from using the locker rooms and bathroom provided for their gender just because they have different genitals than the majority of other men/women?

I think the problem is that people don't think of trans-women as "real" women or trans-men as "real" men....if they were seen as "real" women or "real" men, then I think that saying "your genitals are the wrong shape to use our locker room" might be seen as somewhat similar to telling someone who has a disfiguring injury or a congential malformation of their limbs that they can't use the same locker room with people whose bodies look normal/typical.

It's not about sex (not mainly, anyway). It's about the deeply-ingrained and nearly-universal sense that genitals are private, and that being forced (in the case of schoolchildren) to allow someone of the opposite anatomical gender to see you naked is a profound violation of that most intimate and personal privacy.



A penis is not a deformed vagina.