[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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RedDeathFlower13
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21 Nov 2023, 11:59 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I'm not a journalist but I am yet to see a single Palestinian on camera show remorse over the Oct 7 attacks.


I myself have yet to see a single American show remourse for nuking Japan.

Or a single 'Yankee' show remourse for burning down Atlanta and starving southerners during the American Civil War.

Or a single Christian show remourse for their religion's long history of burning certain people alive at the stake.


The point? Remourse isnt exactly something that the majority of humans are known for when dealing with their enemies during times of war.


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22 Nov 2023, 12:52 am

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GAZA/TEL AVIV, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Israel's government and Hamas agreed on Wednesday to a four-day pause in fighting to allow the release of 50 hostages held in Gaza in exchange for 150 Palestinians imprisoned in Israel, and the entry of humanitarian aid into the besieged enclave.

Officials from Qatar, which has been mediating secret negotiations, as well as the U.S., Israel and Hamas have for days been saying a deal was imminent.

Hamas is believed to be holding more than 200 hostages, taken when its fighters surged into Israel on Oct. 7, killing 1,200 people, according to Israeli tallies.

A statement by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said 50 women and children will be released over four days, during which there will be a pause in fighting.

For every additional 10 hostages released, the pause would be extended by another day, it said, without mentioning the release of Palestinian prisoners in exchange.

"Israel's government is committed to return all the hostages home. Tonight, it approved the proposed deal as a first stage to achieving this goal," said the statement, released after hours of deliberation that were closed to the press.

Hamas said the 50 hostages would be released in exchange for 150 Palestinian women and children who are held in Israeli jails. The truce deal will also allow hundreds of trucks of humanitarian, medical and fuel aid to enter Gaza, the Palestinian group said in a statement.

Israel had committed not to attack or arrest anyone in all parts of Gaza during the truce period, it added.

U.S. President Joe Biden said he welcomed the deal. "Today’s deal should bring home additional American hostages, and I will not stop until they are all released," he said in a statement.

The Qatar government said 50 civilian women and children hostages would be released from Gaza in exchange for the release "of a number of Palestinian women and children held in Israeli prisons".

The starting time of the truce would be announced within the next 24 hours, it said in a statement.

The accord is the first truce of a war in which Israeli bombardments have flattened swathes of Hamas-ruled Gaza, killed 13,300 civilians in the tiny densely populated enclave and left about two-thirds of its 2.3 million people homeless, according to authorities in Gaza.

But Netanyahu said Israel's broader mission was unchanged.

"We are at war and we will continue the war until we achieve all our goals. To destroy Hamas, return all our hostages and ensure that no entity in Gaza can threaten Israel," he said in a recorded message at the start of the government meeting.

Hamas said in its statement: "As we announce the striking of a truce agreement, we affirm that our fingers remain on the trigger, and our victorious fighters will remain on the look out to defend our people and defeat the occupation."


https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-11-21/



Mona Pereth
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22 Nov 2023, 1:01 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
Or a single Christian show remourse for their religion's long history of burning certain people alive at the stake.

When I was growing up, I heard quite a few Christians expressing remorse for this. I grew up in a Calvinist denomination, and was taught that the burning of Servetus was not exactly one of the Reformation's finer moments.

In the 1800's, especially here in the U.S.A., plenty of Christians concluded that the persecution of heretics was not a good idea. This is one of the reasons why our Constitution has the First Amendment.

I hope not too many American Christians want to go all the way back to the Middle Ages in this regard, although there unfortunately does exist a Christian nationalist movement that wants to erode the First Amendment to at least some degree.


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22 Nov 2023, 1:34 am

cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I'd love to meet up with Palestinians who could dispel my belief that you can remove a non-HAMAS Palestinian from Gaza, but you cannot remove HAMAS sympathizing from the Palestinian.

Don't believe it... I saw too much glee after October 7th, from people who no longer lived there, to ever believe that it wasn't espoused by the people who still do.


I spent a lot of time around Palestinians in the 1990s who were given special visas to live in Malaysia (a muslim country) after each Arab-Israeli conflict when I was there. Of the original number who were granted visas the vast majority left to go back to the middle east.

Speaking to those who were left, there was unanimous desire to get revenge on Israel. Frankly a lot of their gripes made sense to me as they were dispossessed. One man who I was close to said his father lost all their land near Jerusalem in 1948. In the 1990s he and others pooled money/cash and donated to groups in Palestine. I never asked if they were militant but since other dispossessed communities I knew did just that! Tamils from Sri Lanka crowd funded (before the internet) militant groups in Sri Lanka perpetuating the civil war. Kurdish expatriates sent money to the Kurdistan liberation movement, And of course famously, the IRA were funded by Irish people.

The question of whether civilians who either they (or their parents/grand parents) lost everything in a civil war have the right to celebrate when (they perceive) their perpatrators are attacked is a difficult one.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not saying they can't celebrate all they like. What I am saying is, stop trying to convince me they aren't happy about it, aren't supporting/cheering/in favor of it even if they didn't pull the trigger.

It baffles the mind that the world will potentially look to the UN during world crisis, then somehow expect the Israelis to just give over and either vacate the land they were granted by the UN, and/or be not of a warlike disposition when 1,200 of it's citizens are slaughtered randomly.

For the sake of argument, let's say there's a grave difference in HAMAS and the average, everyday Palestinian. Is HAMAS going to stop? If the answer is NO, why on earth would anyone want the average, everyday Palestinian to stay entrenched in places like Gaza? I thought you wanted them to be safe? They aren't safe because HAMAS is going to keep provoking Israel and using them as human shields.

Why not ask the UN to make Iran give the Palestinians a place to live? They keep funding terror attacks.

Nothing like that is ever proposed though. It's always, "I'm sorry Israel lost 1,200 people, including infants. But, they have no right to wage war on this large a scale, because well... people just don't really care as much about Jewish life as they do the rest of life." *The death of Jews doesn't seem to elicit the same sympathy from the public as the death of Palestinians, in my observation. It's like, oh well, the poor Palestinians...

I'm over this double standard crap. You're screaming to keep a people in a land where they are caught between two kinds of death, even if any of them were of a mind to evolve, they can't. The world won't intervene in any real fashion, they just get on places like this and scream genocide. And expect Israel to carry out some sort of mediocre war, so that in 20 years 1,200 people can get shot to bits AGAIN. Enough already, somebody put an end to it once and for all.


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Last edited by Persephone29 on 22 Nov 2023, 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Nov 2023, 1:43 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
I myself have yet to see a single American show remourse for nuking Japan.

Many Americans, including myself, probably feel bad about what happened in Japan during WWII. Remorse might not be the right word since we aren't remotely responsible for the mistakes of our predecessors. Still, the point is that at least some Americans disagree with the US's decision here and feel bad about it as they do about other humanitarian catastrophes in history.

However, I could see Palestinian civilians (current and former) caring less about Israel than they might otherwise due to history, long-term oppression, and numbers like these (from 2008 up until August 31, 2023):

Image
Now the casualties on the Palestinian side might be approaching 20,000 people. It could be challenging for some to feel sorry for the nation that is currently bombing them or friends and family. I would like to think that I would because I don't see the world in terms of countries, but I suppose we can't truly know unless we find ourselves in a similar situation.



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 22 Nov 2023, 2:42 am, edited 5 times in total.

cyberdad
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22 Nov 2023, 1:46 am

Dox47 wrote:
but seeing them celebrate and cheer at the atrocities really saps me of any sympathy I may have had for them.


Thats what did it for me.



cyberdad
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22 Nov 2023, 1:49 am

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
The point? Remourse isnt exactly something that the majority of humans are known for when dealing with their enemies during times of war.


The gist is that Israel was on the verge of signing peace treaties with Saudi Arabia when the Oct 7 attack was launched. The fact that so many Palestinians celebrated indicated that while Israel was seeking peace, the Palis still wanted war. They knew what they were doing.



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22 Nov 2023, 1:55 am

Persephone29 wrote:
[The world won't intervene in any real fashion, they just get on places like this and scream genocide. And expect Israel to carry out some sort of mediocre war, so that in 20 years 1,200 people can get shot to bits AGAIN. Enough already, somebody put an end to it once and for all.


Your last point is super critical, The pro-Palis seem to make you believe Israel is some type of juggernaut like the USA. They are not.

Israel was left to fend for themselves on numerous occaisons from 1948 and they really haven;t had a choice but to conscript all citizens, They have enemies on every border and are (literally now) on 24-7 death watch.



Last edited by Cornflake on 22 Nov 2023, 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.: Removed a sweeping generalization

TwilightPrincess
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22 Nov 2023, 1:57 am

cyberdad wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
but seeing them celebrate and cheer at the atrocities really saps me of any sympathy I may have had for them.


Thats what did it for me.

What about the thousands of children? Do either of you have any sympathy for them?



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 22 Nov 2023, 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Nov 2023, 1:58 am

cyberdad wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
but seeing them celebrate and cheer at the atrocities really saps me of any sympathy I may have had for them.


Thats what did it for me.


You are telling porkie pies , your posting history tells me what did it for you.


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22 Nov 2023, 2:07 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
Breaking News wrote:
Terrorists commit atrocities , Australian psychologist Dr C Dad postulates it stems from very deep hatred as opposed to deep hatred shown by the likes of Al Qaeda.

Also, it might be a topic better suited to PPR.


But...but...but.. it's breaking news so it fits the right forum :jester:


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TwilightPrincess
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22 Nov 2023, 2:10 am

Recidivist wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
Breaking News wrote:
Terrorists commit atrocities , Australian psychologist Dr C Dad postulates it stems from very deep hatred as opposed to deep hatred shown by the likes of Al Qaeda.

Also, it might be a topic better suited to PPR.


But...but...but.. it's breaking news so it fits the right forum :jester:

I wasn't responding to you but to the person above me with that comment. I probably should've formatted it differently. :oops:



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22 Nov 2023, 2:14 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
Breaking News wrote:
Terrorists commit atrocities , Australian psychologist Dr C Dad postulates it stems from very deep hatred as opposed to deep hatred shown by the likes of Al Qaeda.

Also, it might be a topic better suited to PPR.


But...but...but.. it's breaking news so it fits the right forum :jester:

I wasn't responding to you but to the person above me with that comment. I probably should've formatted it differently. :oops:


I knew that, my sarcasm wouldn't work if I acknowledged that.


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cyberdad
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22 Nov 2023, 4:31 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:


I notice these two journalists work for an Iranian backed paper. Also the journalists who have died seem to be working for Arab publications. I don't buy Israel targeted them because they were journalists. A better explanation is they have won the confidence of HAMAS and were therefore in the vicinity of target range for Israeli fire.



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22 Nov 2023, 5:07 am

Lets face it, you wouldn't buy anything off an Arab :mrgreen:


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