Is Inhofe correct?
wittgenstein
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[1] First, it's often not really about science at all, especially when it is by non-scientific people, more especially when it is by politicians.
[2] Remember the IPCC claimed that all the glaciers in the Himalayas would shortly melt...
[3] For example, when the "little ice age" ended, our temperatures began climbing. That is perfectly natural. And they are still climbing. But then it doesn't look so convincing to show that history. Be arbitrarily choosing a much more recent baseline, it looks like something new is happening instead of something that has been going on for over a century. Also, considering a longer time period is more likely to show that there are always fluctuations.
[4] For example, I remember one scientist who has claimed to have been a skeptic but is now convinced that it is real. More importantly, I remember him speaking in a seminar at a time when he says he was a skeptic in which he was clearly on the side of Global Warming as a problem. In other words, at time he claims to have been a skeptic, he was still publicly speaking about Global Warming and not as a skeptic.
[5] Look at the mathematics of the hockey stick for example. That wasn't even bad science -- it was nothing but fraud designed to fool the public.
.
1. Agreed! Science agrees that AGW is real. Some extreme right wing politicians do not.
2. http://www.nature.com/news/climate-chan ... ty-1.14031 The Himalayan glaciers are melting.
3. Actually, we should be cooling now ( see above posts for the site about the Milankovitch cycles)
4. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence, especially given without sources etc. Besides even if that scientist were corrupt, who cares? That proves nothing concerning global warming.
5. See claim 2 from http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -nonsense/
PS; The brackets [] are perfectly legit. They mean that everything within the brackets was added to the quote. In this case I added the 1,2,3,4 and 5 to be able to address each of your points and not confuse the two.
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wittgenstein
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For some reason WP is having a real problem posting links.
I have cut up the links in the above post. Copy and paste them together.
http://www.nature.com/news/
climate-change-melting-glaciers-bring-energy-
uncertainty-1.14031
……………….
http://www.scientificamerican.com
/article/seven-answers-to-
climate-contrarian-nonsense/
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[ 1] For what it's worth, I really doubt that any legitimate climate scientists deny the existence of Milankovitch cycles regardless of where they stand on Global Warming. [2] You act like people who don't believe Global Warming is significantly due to man must think Milankovitch cycles are bogus. I really fail to understand that.
1. I am not saying that climate scientists doubt that Milankovitch cycles exist. I am saying that they are further proof of global warming. According to the Milankovitch idea, we are in a cooling period. We are not. Therefore, our contribution to global warming has cancelled out their effect. For example, I do not doubt that an air conditioner will cool my house. However, if I turn the furnace up 200 degrees the house will get warmer even with the air conditioner on. And yes, without the air conditioner on, the house would be even warmer.
2. I am saying that one tactic of the AGW deniers was to say, " global warming is just a part of the natural Milankovitch cycle." However, since according to the Milankovitch idea we should be getting cooler, it is further evidence that we are contributing to global warming. The AGW deniers can no longer use the Milankovitch cycles as a natural explanation for global warming. I am sure that the AGW deniers will come up with another explanation for global warming and that will be shot down also.
The science of the Milankovitch cycles is anything but well enough understood to make such claims. Furthermore the climate is so much more complex than Milankovitch cycles, it is simply preposterous.
But since are so much more knowledgeable than any scientist in the world, precisely what temperatures should we see today based on the Milankovitch cycles?
If you are trying to be the most condescending bore I have ever encountered, you are definitely in the running.
wittgenstein
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“
The science of the Milankovitch cycles is anything but well enough understood to make such claims. “
Eric 76
Take it up with the scientists. Those were not my statements, they were from science. Go ahead and disagree with ALL OF SCIENCE. I will continue to believe that all the scientists are not idiots and that you are not inspired by God with more scientific knowledge than them.
“Furthermore the climate is so much more complex than Milankovitch cycles, it is simply preposterous.”
Eric 76
Yes, there is more to the climate than Milankovitch cycles. What is your point? Do you actually have one?
“If you are trying to be the most condescending bore I have ever encountered, you are definitely in the running”
Eric 76
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Perhaps, you actually do know what brackets mean. I have discovered that most people do not and think that I am altering their quote.
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wittgenstein
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“But since [ you] are so much more knowledgeable than any scientist in the world, precisely what temperatures should we see today based on the Milankovitch cycles?”
Eric 76
????????????? I have quoted scientists ( with sites) . They agree with me, not you. They are not my ideas.
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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM
My prediction came true, and sooner than I thought. Snow fell in Sahara on the 31st of December 2014.
http://twitter.com/LibyaLiberty/status/550271495986245632/photo/1
http://www.libyaherald.com/2014/12/31/snow-hail-rain-and-storm-hit-tripolitania/
Etc.
Eric 76
????????????? I have quoted scientists ( with sites) . They agree with me, not you. They are not my ideas.
I must have missed the sites that found some Milankovitch based temperature that we are supposed to be at and compares that to the temperature we are actually at.
I would be amazed if there are any, at least written by real scientists, because they would presumably know that there are far more factors than Milankovitch cycles and that the Milankovitch cycles are not anywhere near the point that anyone can make accurate predictions based on them.
Eric 76
????????????? I have quoted scientists ( with sites) . They agree with me, not you. They are not my ideas.
I must have missed the sites that found some Milankovitch based temperature that we are supposed to be at and compares that to the temperature we are actually at.
I would be amazed if there are any, at least written by real scientists, because they would presumably know that there are far more factors than Milankovitch cycles and that the Milankovitch cycles are not anywhere near the point that anyone can make accurate predictions based on them.
No takers I see. According to a book I read, the answer is 42.
Science which has long been forbidden from saying anything about having having doubts about the wisdom of Government and Capitalism, has when told to said, humans caused some warming. As all grants come from a cartel of government and corporate intrests, they are just voting their paychecks.
Humans are a cause, they are warm, fart, and yet there is little direct mention of plowing the earth, clear cutting forests, and grazing cattle. Science is not offering answers, just confirming it is the fault of the tax payers.
Then the dumb press puts two and two together, and promotes panic.
The only people I have heard put forth a plan to reduce Carbon, not by reducing production, but by improving the Carbon Sink of plant life, are the dirty red rats of China. They have a plan to terraform their country, lots of land that would not produce food, that they will plant just to take up Carbon. They intend to harvest Carbon as an asset. Besides fixing Carbon and Nitrogen in the soil, and organic matter, it will clean the air, produce O2, and develop the water cycle. By mid century they think they can be Carbon Neutral.
We have a lot of degraded Public Land that is being leased very cheaply for cattle production. It is being exploited to desert. Ending the cattle Allotment system, reclaiming the Public Lands, would produce a lot of employment, cattle produce near none. It would also reduce CO2. Plant cover would improve water retention.
Long term problems that no person could fund, but will be critical for the future, are supposed to be the reason behind Government. Government has been a main exploiter of Public Assets, lands, offshore oil, and consistantly lose money at it. It is a give away for people with friends in Congress.
We do not have a US Department of the Future.
We need one.
wittgenstein
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“Where are we currently in the natural cycle (Milankovitch cycle)? The warmest point of the last cycle was around 10,000 years ago, at the peak of the Holocene. Since then, there has been an overall cooling trend, consistent with a continuation of the natural cycle, and this cooling would continue for thousands of years into the future if all else remained the same. But since 1750 however, the CO2 content of the atmosphere has deviated from the natural cycle. Instead of decreasing, it has increased because of the fossil-fuel burning. Methane and nitrous oxide have also increased unnaturally because of agricultural practices and other factors. The world has also warmed unnaturally. We are now deviating from the natural cycle.”
FROM
http://ossfoundation.us/projects/enviro ... ural-cycle
There are also many other sources that will explain the Milankovitch cycles. I hope that site will cure your confusion.
No sites that say that we should be cooling? I really wish you guys would read posts!! !! !
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wittgenstein
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My prediction came true, and sooner than I thought. Snow fell in Sahara on the 31st of December 2014.
http://twitter.com/LibyaLiberty/status/550271495986245632/photo/1
http://www.libyaherald.com/2014/12/31/snow-hail-rain-and-storm-hit-tripolitania/
Etc.
You still don't get it? Yes, it can still get unusually cool in parts of the world.However, the world in total is still warming. If there is an unusually cold day on July 6, does that mean that summer does not exist?
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wittgenstein
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Science which has long been forbidden from saying anything about having having doubts about the wisdom of Government and Capitalism,....
Actually, international corporations are the ones paying for the propaganda that says that AGW is not real. The oil companies etc, do not want us to lessen our dependency on fossil fuels.
Are you actually claiming that the solar power industry has more clout than Exxon, Shell...?
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wittgenstein
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???? Give me a quote and a site! That has got to be the most silly thing I have ever read. Science merely says that CO2 output increases global warming ( which is a proven fact). Science also says that pollution from international corporations are the major factor.
We also could have had electric cars decades ago, if not for the international corporations and Wall Street. That would have drastically reduced our CO2 output.
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wittgenstein
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To ask for a prediction as to what our temperature should be now according to the Milankovitch cycles is like asking what will the temperature be on July 8 2015. Yes, we do not know what the temperature will be on July 8 2015 but that is not a reason to doubt that there is a thing called summer. There are many contributing factors to the climate ( such as AGW) .
“Since orbital variations are predictable,[20] if one has a model that relates orbital variations to climate, it is possible to run such a model forward to "predict" future climate. Two caveats are necessary: that anthropogenic effects may modify or even overwhelm orbital effects; and that the mechanism by which orbital forcing influences climate is not well understood. In the most prominent anthropogenic example, orbital forcing from the Milankovitch cycles has been in a cooling phase for millennia, but that cooling trend was reversed in the 20th and 21st centuries due to warming caused by increased anthropogenicgreenhouse gas emissions.”
FROM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovit ... conditions
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I went up over 50 feet!
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wittgenstein
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PLEASE stop with the fake graph!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! *
It was proven to be faked and is from a disreputable site ( that you purposely did not disclose).
In the interest of honesty I will disclose the source.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/10/03/ ... re-record/
Mark Morano is the founder of climate depot
“He began his career working for Rush Limbaugh from 1992 to 1996, during which time he was known as "Limbaugh's man in Washington".[1]
“At the end of 2012Media Matters for America named Morano the "Climate Change Misinformer of the Year."[11] The German magazine Zeit has described him as a "PR manager" and "climate warrior", and called his career "a lesson in the art of lying". [12]
FROM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Morano
“One key piece of information that's usually omitted when discussing this subject is that the overall warming of the entire climate system has continued rapidly over the past 15 years, even faster than the 15 years before that.”
“The speed bump only applies to surface temperatures, which only represent about 2 percent of the overall warming of the global climate. Can you make out the tiny purple segment at the bottom of the above figure? That's the only part of the climate for which the warming has 'paused'. “
http://www.skepticalscience.com/does-gl ... think.html
* For one thing the RSS did not put the “ No global warming for 18 years 3 months” on the graph. Also, as the directly above shows when taken IN TOTAL the temperature of the earth continues to increase. The graph only concerns the troposphere , not the entire earth!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !
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I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM
“Since orbital variations are predictable,[20] if one has a model that relates orbital variations to climate, it is possible to run such a model forward to "predict" future climate. Two caveats are necessary: that anthropogenic effects may modify or even overwhelm orbital effects; and that the mechanism by which orbital forcing influences climate is not well understood. In the most prominent anthropogenic example, orbital forcing from the Milankovitch cycles has been in a cooling phase for millennia, but that cooling trend was reversed in the 20th and 21st centuries due to warming caused by increased anthropogenicgreenhouse gas emissions.”
FROM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovit ... conditions
You admit that you can't tell us what conditions we should be under as a result of Milankovitch cycles but then you make claims that we have deviated from those cycles.
That deviation is based entirely on conjecture.
The truth is that nobody knows, including you, where we should be under the Milankovitch cycle.
In any event, trying to tie anything too closely to the Milankovitch cycle is nonsense anywhere. The climate is quite complicated and there is no single factor on which anyone can honestly base their climate projections. That includes Milankovitch cycles and it includes CO2.