[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,541
Location: Long Island, New York
This is an aspect of the situation I was unaware of.
So not only did Hamas attack a whole lot of Israeli civilians, but they attacked, primarily, some of the very few Israelis who had any sympathy whatsoever for Palestinians, thereby making any longterm solution even harder to achieve?
If so, that further adds to the horror of the Hamas attack, in my opinion.
But I'm still horrified by Israel's response too.
They attacked that area because it was right next door.
Not only did they attack them, they apparently used their generosity to gather intelligence for the attack. That and the livestreaming of the attack are factors in the mindset I have been describing that has confounded and enraged a large part of the world.
I do not know how true this is but it is conventional wisdom in Israel that after Hamas finished what they were doing in a kibbutz a lot of Gaza civilians came in and looted.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 14 Dec 2023, 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,541
Location: Long Island, New York
U.S. urges Israel to move to a new phase of its war against Hamas
The officials stressed that White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan did not specify a timetable for this new phase of the war during his meeting Thursday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
At Thursday’s White House press briefing, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Sullivan spoke with Netanyahu about “the next phase of Israel’s military campaign, and he asked hard questions, as we have been doing, about what all that could look like.”
Kirby said that Sullivan “also discussed efforts Israel’s now undertaking to be more surgical and precise in their targeting and efforts that they are taking to help increase the flow of aid.”
The push comes as the death toll in the Gaza Strip approaches 20,000 — two-thirds of them women and children — according to local health officials.
Sullivan had “a heavy discussion” about civilian protection with Israeli officials during his trip to the region, a senior administration official said Thursday on a call with reporters.
"There was a discussion in these meetings — and also in our prior meetings and in calls between the president and the prime minister — on kind of shifts and emphasis from...high intensity clearance operations, which are ongoing now, to ultimately lower-intensity focus on high-value targets, intelligence-driven raids and those sorts of more-narrow surgical military objectives," the senior administration official said.
sraeli officials have briefed U.S. officials on their "thinking of potential timeframes," the official said.
"I think the Israelis had ideas for the military campaign very early which we found problematic, and I think the president's visit out here very early in the crisis, discussed that in some detail," the official said. "And the ground campaign was adjusted based upon some of our advice, some of our recommendations, with the recognition that this ultimately is not our war."
U.S. officials on Thursday also discussed with Israeli counterparts “the protection of hospitals, even when those hospitals are being used by Hamas,” the senior administration official said.
At an unrelated event on Thursday, Biden was asked whether he wanted Israel to scale back its assault on Gaza. He responded: “I want them to be focused on how to save civilian lives. Not stop going after Hamas — but be more careful.”
Earlier Thursday, before meeting with Sullivan, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said that the war against Hamas would “last more than several months.”
“That’s consistent with what they’ve been saying since almost the very beginning, that this could take some time,” Kirby said at the White House press briefing. “We’re not dictating terms to the Israelis about how long it has to take.”
U.S. officials acknowledge it will take months for Israel to take out Hamas leaders, an effort that will continue even if the high-intensity phase of the war moves to a more surgical one. The debate over the pace of the war comes after Biden warned earlier this week in a speech to campaign donors that Israel was losing global support because of “indiscriminate bombing.”
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,541
Location: Long Island, New York
Satellite Imagery and Video Shows Some Gazan Cemeteries Razed by Israeli Forces
In Gaza City’s Shajaiye neighborhood, where heavy combat raged in recent days, Israeli forces razed part of the Tunisian cemetery to set up a temporary military position. A satellite image from Sunday shows armored vehicles and earthen fortifications on what were intact graves days earlier.
The Israeli military did not respond to questions by The Times about its reason for razing the cemetery and whether it has taken any precautions to protect religious sites in Gaza. The laws of armed conflict consider the intentional destruction of religious sites without military necessity a possible war crime.
Israeli military vehicles destroyed dozens of graves at a smaller cemetery in early December, next to an existing Israeli position half a mile to the northwest of the Tunisian cemetery. A video published by the Israeli military on Sunday shows soldiers apparently engaged in combat in the area.
On the same day, in the Jabaliya neighborhood of Gaza City, satellite imagery showed new tracks and possible military vehicles at Al-Faluja cemetery. Later video footage shows damage to gravesites but no established military positions.
A possible military position was set up at a cemetery in Beit Hanoun, also in northern Gaza.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
This is the first time that I've ever heard of Hamas operating outside of Israel. Why now?
It's not the first time Hamas has been operating outside of Israel. Apparently, Hamas was active here in the U.S.A. back in the early 1990's.
I just now happened to be looking at Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood: Islamic Extremists and the Threat to America, originally published by the Anti-Defamation League back in 1993, now on the website of the Nizkor Project (a website devoted primarily to debunking claims of Holocaust deniers).
By the way, Hamas's (and Islamic Jihad's) rhetoric back then was absolutely chilling.
CW: Extreme, murderous, dehumanizing hatred of Jews
Ibrahim Sarbal, Leader of Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine – Al-Aqsa Brigades
“Six million descendants of monkeys [i.e., Jews] [3] now rule in all the nations of the world, but their day, too, will come. Allah! Kill them all, do not leave even one!”[4]
Imam Sheik Ahmad Ibrahim, HAMAS leader, in a sermon at the Palestine Mosque in Gaza.
Footnotes here.
It boggles my mind how Netanyahu could have deliberately chosen to strengthen a group like this, just to weaken the PA.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
Last edited by Mona Pereth on 15 Dec 2023, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ibrahim Sarbal, Leader of Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine – Al-Aqsa Brigades
“Six million descendants of monkeys [i.e., Jews] [3] now rule in all the nations of the world, but their day, too, will come. Allah! Kill them all, do not leave even one!”[4]
Imam Sheik Ahmad Ibrahim, HAMAS leader, in a sermon at the Palestine Mosque in Gaza.
Footnotes here.
It boggles my mind how Netanyahu could have deliberately chosen to strengthen a group like this, just to weaken the PA.
I actually know about Hamas' rhetoric back in the '90's. Even back then though, nobody around me wanted to listen to my opinions because a lot of people still saw them as "freedom fighter". In fact they were one of the main sticking points that prevented the UN from adopting a formal definition of "terrorism" after 9/11.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,040
Location: Right over your left shoulder
The video posted just now by funeralxempire is Israeli Dissidents EXPOSE Genocidal Language, on the YouTube channel of Owen Jones.
Indeed there has been quite a bit of absolutely chilling genocidal language on the Israeli side too, as well as on the part of Hamas and similar group.
This is why I don't think any real solution to the Israel/Palestine problem will be possible until (1) a very strong pro-peace pro-Palestine movement rises here in the U.S.A., as a counterbalance to Christian Zionism, and (2) American religious leaders on all sides, including at least some of the now-extremely-powerful Christian Zionists, become more willing to engage in interfaith dialogue.
Only then will it be possible for the U.S.A., and the West more generally, to take a balanced approach to the Israel/Palestine problem and effectively pressure Israel into a humane and just solution that adequately protects both Israeli Jews and indigenous Palestinians.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
Last edited by Mona Pereth on 15 Dec 2023, 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,541
Location: Long Island, New York
Indeed there has been quite a bit of absolutely chilling genocidal language on the Israeli side too, as well as on the part of groups like Hamas.
This is why I don't think any real solution to the Israel/Palestine problem will be possible until (1) a very strong pro-peace pro-Palestine movement rises here in the U.S.A., as a counterbalance to Christian Zionism, and (2) American religious leaders on all sides, including at least some of the now-extremely-powerful Christian Zionists, become more willing to engage in interfaith dialogue.
Only then will it be possible for the U.S.A., and the West more generally, to take a balanced approach to the Israel/Palestine problem and effectively pressure Israel into a humane and just solution that adequately protects both Israeli Jews and indigenous Palestinians.
It has got to be both Jews and Palestinians not only wanting it but willing to keep at it despite repeated brutal terrorism by opponents.
Again I need to caution against ascribing these sentiments to only extreme right wing Jews and Christian Zionists. I know this is anecdotal but I was speaking to my brother a true blue democrat. He said secular Jewish very liberal people he knows are saying level Gaza. They are not quite as explicit about it but the Israeli journalists I have heard as saying similar things about Israeli public opinion.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Yes, but, given the extreme political power of Christian Zionists here in the U.S.A., I think there's an absolutely key role for non-Zionist Christians, to listen to and amplify the voices of Palestinian Christians, and to take a strong stand against genocide (and any complicity therein by the U.S. government) no matter which side does it.
All the more so do the rest of us, including the afore-mentioned non-Zionist Christians, need to take a strong stand against genocide.
(Any non-Zionist Christians reading this, please see my threads on Christian Zionism and Palestinian Christians, and please discuss these matters with your fellow Christians. This is urgent!)
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
Another video by Owen Jones:
This Israeli Soldier Fought In Gaza. Now He Speaks Out
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,541
Location: Long Island, New York
Israeli military says hostages mistakenly killed were holding white flag: Reports
An initial inquiry into the incident by the Israeli military determined that the soldiers violated the rules of engagement by firing on the group.
According to a senior Israeli military official, a single Israeli soldier opened fire on the three hostages when they exited a building near an Israeli base and began walking towards the base.
The soldier believed the hostages proved a threat and fired on them, killing two and forcing the third to flee into the building, according to the official.
“They’re all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it,” the official said, according to Reuters. “The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. He declares that they’re terrorists, they (forces) open fire, two are killed immediately.”
The third hostage then called for help in Hebrew, causing the soldiers to believe the man was a Hamas militant luring the group into a trap, the official said. The soldiers then entered the building and killed the hostage.
“This was against our rules of engagement,” The official said.
Markings on the men’s bodies raised suspicions that they may be Israeli, the official said, and they were later transported to Israel and confirmed to be among the hostages held by Hamas.
Two days earlier, soldiers noted a building in the area with the writing “SOS” and “help, three hostages” written on the outside walls, Haaretz reported. The Israeli military believed the building could be a trap.
The hostages were identified as Yotam Haim, Samer Talalka and Alon Shamriz.
The hostages’ killings sparked a wave of protests in Israel. Hundreds took to the streets of Tel Aviv on Friday to protest the Israeli government over its military operations in Gaza.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has faced increasing opposition from both in Israel and abroad over his response to the Oct. 7 attacks, which sparked the war.
Netanyahu called the incident an “unbearable tragedy.”
“Together with the entire people of Israel, I bow my head in deep sorrow and mourn the death of three of our dear sons who were kidnapped,” he said. “My heart goes out to the grieving families in their difficult time.”
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
An initial inquiry into the incident by the Israeli military determined that the soldiers violated the rules of engagement by firing on the group.
According to a senior Israeli military official, a single Israeli soldier opened fire on the three hostages when they exited a building near an Israeli base and began walking towards the base.
The soldier believed the hostages proved a threat and fired on them, killing two and forcing the third to flee into the building, according to the official.
“They’re all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it,” the official said, according to Reuters. “The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. He declares that they’re terrorists, they (forces) open fire, two are killed immediately.”
The third hostage then called for help in Hebrew, causing the soldiers to believe the man was a Hamas militant luring the group into a trap, the official said. The soldiers then entered the building and killed the hostage.
“This was against our rules of engagement,” The official said.
Markings on the men’s bodies raised suspicions that they may be Israeli, the official said, and they were later transported to Israel and confirmed to be among the hostages held by Hamas.
Two days earlier, soldiers noted a building in the area with the writing “SOS” and “help, three hostages” written on the outside walls, Haaretz reported. The Israeli military believed the building could be a trap.
The hostages were identified as Yotam Haim, Samer Talalka and Alon Shamriz.
The hostages’ killings sparked a wave of protests in Israel. Hundreds took to the streets of Tel Aviv on Friday to protest the Israeli government over its military operations in Gaza.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has faced increasing opposition from both in Israel and abroad over his response to the Oct. 7 attacks, which sparked the war.
Netanyahu called the incident an “unbearable tragedy.”
“Together with the entire people of Israel, I bow my head in deep sorrow and mourn the death of three of our dear sons who were kidnapped,” he said. “My heart goes out to the grieving families in their difficult time.”
This is an atrocity ,,imho ...Israel appears to be off the rails..It seems obvious to me, that no amount of miscalculation , or Politics will resolve the mind numbing atitude of the Israeli leadership . The UN should have been in there Long time ago .. And some of the responsibility for the ongoing nature of this conflict should be shouldered by the Israeli gov. including removal of political leaders that have encouraged the ongoing nature of this slaughter
of humanity . At least the N a z i. s took time took segregate , the people they committed their. crimes against .
And most importantly inspite of Propaganda reinforced by the Jewish nation , or whatever , you call this particular group of Semites..N a z i s did not only segragate them from the population .. but other minorities too. whom did not get recognition for the Genocides against those other people.
Israel has enforced. scorced earth policy against the parts of GAZA not under the Israeli citizen ownership situations
currently ...
So our own dear kind government has possibly blocked the movement of UN intervention in that region .
Its is ridiculous .. Russia wants Ukrainian lands ,, Israel wants Palestinian prime land ...whats the difference now
at this point in time ? Why does the US and its allies not supply Hamas and Palestine , weapons and equipment?
As we have done for Ukraine ? ...Sorry this is a tough comparision , I am writing about ...but when you
kill the very people you , supposably went into a country to save ( hostages) What else is left .?
[ The Land ..! ] as i have written before , it outright appears to be a Land grab. . It would only be appropriate , if as a concession that Israel return All lands it has taken from others in that area, possibly including the entire GAZA strip . As reparations for War crimes . Russia lost the donbas region and now is losing Crimea..? given that as a comparison . But in reality , i just feel sadness for all the oarticipants ,dead or alive that have had to do this due to their influencers / masters,Political leaders ? biddings,
_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,541
Location: Long Island, New York
In an apparent effort to play to his right-wing base, Netanyahu publicly broke this week with President Joe Biden and rejected any talk of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
He called the Oslo peace agreement, which established the Palestinian Authority in 1994 and gave it the power to govern the West Bank and Gaza, a “mistake” that should not be repeated. The statement was a blunt rebuke of Biden, who has called for a “revamped” Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza after Hamas is defeated.
Netanyahu’s move follows a long-running pattern of the Israeli leader making hard-line statements for his own political gain, according to current and former Israeli officials, who asked not to be named. Netanyahu, Israel’s longest-serving prime minister, has repeatedly fended off removal attempts in recent years by striking alliances with right-wing political parties.
U.S. and Israeli officials told NBC News that they fear Netanyahu has adopted some positions in the war against Hamas to prolong his own political survival.
Given his weak political position and the widespread expectation that he could be sidelined once the fighting ends in Gaza, they said, Netanyahu has a strong motive to prolong the military offensive.
“He has every incentive to keep the war going, to ensure his political survival,” one U.S. lawmaker who asked not to be named told NBC News.
At the same time, Israel is increasingly isolated internationally as the Palestinian death toll in the conflict has reached 18,700, with 70% of them women and children, according to Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry. The vast majority of the territory's 2.2 million people are displaced, and half of them are estimated to face starvation, according to the U.N.
A current Israeli official said that Netanyahu is pivoting to the right as the domestic political cost of his government’s failure to prevent the Oct. 7 attack looms.
After the surprise assault, Netanyahu formed a unity wartime government made up of five senior Israeli officials.
Six weeks later, centrist opposition leader Yair Lapid became the first major Israeli political figure to call for Netanyahu to resign, criticizing him for his handling of the war.
“Netanyahu needs to go now during the fighting,” Lapid said on Israel’s Channel 12 news. “The country is going to a bad place.”
Retired general and center-left politician Amos Yadlin has put much of the blame for Israel’s intelligence failure leading up to Oct. 7 on the chaos that resulted from the Netanyahu government’s proposed judicial reform.
“Netanyahu got all the warnings — from his defense minister, from the chief of staff, from the head of intelligence, from the head of Shin Bet and from independent writers like me, like others — that this is weakening Israel deterrence and endangering Israeli national security,” Yadlin told Politico three weeks after the attack.
Eisenkot, a member of the unity government whose son and nephew were recently killed in fighting in Gaza, has also been cited as a potential political rival to Netanyahu. Eisenkot, a former senior military leader, opposed Netanyahu’s judicial reforms.
Some analysts contend that Netanyahu’s pivot to the right makes sense for a politician seeking to strengthen domestic support before worrying about global public opinion. They also noted that some of Netanyahu’s positions are not outside the political norm in Israel post-Oct. 7.
While Biden has expressed support for a two-state solution, Israeli leaders across the political spectrum have said they are not ready to talk about establishing a Palestinian state after the massacre.
“Maybe it seems logical to the world right now, but it doesn’t make sense,” said Israeli columnist and commentator Nadav Eyal.
Israeli President Isaac Herzog, a member of the left-wing Labor Party, told The Associated Press this week that he is urging allies not to jump immediately to talk of a two-state solution. “There is an emotional chapter here that must be dealt with,” Herzog said. “My nation is bereaving. My nation is in trauma.”
Michael Singh, a former senior director for Middle East affairs at the National Security Council during the George W. Bush Administration, predicted that it will take time for a post-Oct. 7 realignment to occur in Israeli politics. He said it's not clear whether opposition leaders and public opinion will unify against Netanyahu, or the fractured politics that he has used to remain in power will continue.
“Once the dust settles in Gaza, you are going to have a really difficult process of accountability for Oct. 7 and potentially a resurfacing of the preexisting divisions,” he said. “It’ll really be all-consuming for Israeli society. We have to be patient and let this play out.”
Singh, a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, cautioned that the removal of a figure who has dominated Israeli politics for decades is not preordained. “Bibi has a very tough road to hoe here if you look at his approval ratings,” Singh said. “But you can never count him out.”
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
Al Jazeera's take, posted back on October 13:
Why Hamas Attacked Israel - And What's Next For Gaza
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
This sort of Broadcasting by Al Jeezera...only fuels the intense issues in the region....it is a fact that these same issues need attn..! . But the Gaza strip is high dollar land ..and if you want to persuade people to sell their land at the bottom dollar , or even just run away .. you mass repeated attacks upon them. And try to justify it anyway
a country can . Obvious Israel had to know something was up , before the extra attack on their own areas . Or the Mossaud ( Israeli secret police)needs a new boss .
_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Similar Topics | |
---|---|
Israel and Hamas reach Gaza ceasefire and hostage release de |
Yesterday, 4:37 pm |
Arrest in assault on Congresswoman Mace |
13 Dec 2024, 10:54 am |