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Inuyasha
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23 Jan 2011, 4:29 pm

Claradoon wrote:
You're right, all of you, but I still don't get it. During the first Gulf War, the US military erected a tent city to house 40,000 POWs in a few weeks. Shortly after that war, they ran a pipeline several miles from somewhere to provide endless water for refugees in the mountains.


Uh the UN is running the relief programs not the US. Does Oil-for-food scandal ring any bells.



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23 Jan 2011, 9:18 pm

The US runs the whole show in Haiti with Brazil playing a subsidiary role. They even murdered the Brazilian general that headed the occupation force because he was too soft on those slum dwellers in Cite Soleil. He was gunned down on the balcony of the Montana Hotel. It was ruled a suicide. Remember everyone, it was a suicide. He was reading a book when he just decided to shoot himself. Funny that.

So Haiti doesn't produce cement because the Americans ordered that they privatise the cement company and the new owners with Henry Kissinger on the Board of Directors shut it down the next day. They don't produce any more sugar either because that was decided by the IMF in the '80s other than to make moonshine. There's no sugar refining capacity in Haiti any more. The rice industry was destroyed starting in the mid-80s by the Chicago School economist who used the post-Duvalier so-called provisional government to experiment. The second stage of the experiment took place in the late '90s when the tariffs were reduced to 3%. Haiti is the most open country to trade in the region and the elite has decided it's more profitable to import goods than to produce anything in Haiti. Haiti's production has fallen like a rock under U.S. tutelage. Did I mention that the pigs were all exterminated by U.S. order in the latter part of the Duvalier regime. That's one of the things that sunk him. The pigs were the peasants' piggy banks. School enrollment numbers crashed after that stunt was pulled. Haiti has privatised practically everything. The former Haitian Defence Minister says it's "The most privatised country in the world". The state is totally enfeebled. They couldn't do a thing about the earthquake. They own nothing. The state-run telephone company used to bring in millions and millions to state coffers. Not any more. It was sold off by U.S. command to the Army of Communist Vietnam! The ports they don't own anymore. No wonder they're nostalgic for the Duvaliers. One thing is for sure - Papa Doc would have told those vultures to go to Hell. Sure his number two sold blood for profit but he was a Haitian nationalist and would not have stood for such debasement.



Inuyasha
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23 Jan 2011, 10:36 pm

@ xenon13

Suurrreee.....

The evil lizard people struck again... :roll:



ruveyn
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24 Jan 2011, 10:39 am

xenon13 wrote:
The US runs the whole show in Haiti with Brazil playing a subsidiary role. They even murdered the Brazilian general that headed the occupation force because he was too soft on those slum dwellers in Cite Soleil. He was gunned down on the balcony of the Montana Hotel. It was ruled a suicide. Remember everyone, it was a suicide. He was reading a book when he just decided to shoot himself. Funny that.

So Haiti doesn't produce cement because the Americans ordered that they privatise the cement company and the new owners with Henry Kissinger on the Board of Directors shut it down the next day. They don't produce any more sugar either because that was decided by the IMF in the '80s other than to make moonshine. There's no sugar refining capacity in Haiti any more. The rice industry was destroyed starting in the mid-80s by the Chicago School economist who used the post-Duvalier so-called provisional government to experiment. The second stage of the experiment took place in the late '90s when the tariffs were reduced to 3%. Haiti is the most open country to trade in the region and the elite has decided it's more profitable to import goods than to produce anything in Haiti. Haiti's production has fallen like a rock under U.S. tutelage. Did I mention that the pigs were all exterminated by U.S. order in the latter part of the Duvalier regime. That's one of the things that sunk him. The pigs were the peasants' piggy banks. School enrollment numbers crashed after that stunt was pulled. Haiti has privatised practically everything. The former Haitian Defence Minister says it's "The most privatised country in the world". The state is totally enfeebled. They couldn't do a thing about the earthquake. They own nothing. The state-run telephone company used to bring in millions and millions to state coffers. Not any more. It was sold off by U.S. command to the Army of Communist Vietnam! The ports they don't own anymore. No wonder they're nostalgic for the Duvaliers. One thing is for sure - Papa Doc would have told those vultures to go to Hell. Sure his number two sold blood for profit but he was a Haitian nationalist and would not have stood for such debasement.


You forgot all about the Black Helicopters and the FEMA camps in Haitii

ruveyn



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24 Jan 2011, 3:09 pm

Seems that people are more inclined to believe ridiculous rumours about left-wingers getting their own people shot to blame the right-wing and other such crap, than they are to consider the possibility that the USA interferes with the running of other countries in order to benefit itself. Which it does, as we all know.


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Inuyasha
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24 Jan 2011, 3:18 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Seems that people are more inclined to believe ridiculous rumours about left-wingers getting their own people shot to blame the right-wing and other such crap, than they are to consider the possibility that the USA interferes with the running of other countries in order to benefit itself. Which it does, as we all know.


Uh Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck have both pointed out the shooter in Tuscon was simply insane. I said they had the story already written and were praying for a shooting incident to smear Conservatives.



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24 Jan 2011, 4:08 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Seems that people are more inclined to believe ridiculous rumours about left-wingers getting their own people shot to blame the right-wing and other such crap, than they are to consider the possibility that the USA interferes with the running of other countries in order to benefit itself. Which it does, as we all know.


Uh Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck have both pointed out the shooter in Tuscon was simply insane. I said they had the story already written and were praying for a shooting incident to smear Conservatives.


And this is what I mean. You find it easier to accept this than the FACT that the US interferes in the affairs of other nations for its own gain even though its common knowledge that they do.


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26 Jan 2011, 8:47 pm

They suspect that the Brazilian general was shot by people working for Guy Phillippe who led that militia that was armed by the US to topple Aristide. If this is true, this shows that he was shot by a man who was working for the U.S., and the U.S. clearly chose to protect him by making up this ridiculous suicide story. They wanted them to go in and kill, kill and kill in Cite Soleil. That's what they've been doing now and again, these so-called peacekeepers. They ban the most popular party from running in the election and turnout is 27% or so. Shocking, isn't it.



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26 Jan 2011, 9:29 pm

xenon13 wrote:
They suspect that the Brazilian general was shot by people working for Guy Phillippe who led that militia that was armed by the US to topple Aristide. If this is true, this shows that he was shot by a man who was working for the U.S., and the U.S. clearly chose to protect him by making up this ridiculous suicide story. They wanted them to go in and kill, kill and kill in Cite Soleil. That's what they've been doing now and again, these so-called peacekeepers. They ban the most popular party from running in the election and turnout is 27% or so. Shocking, isn't it.


Sure whatever, I fail to see what the point would be, there is nothing in Haiti for there to be any motive whatsoever.



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27 Jan 2011, 12:41 am

xenon13 wrote:
Haiti needs Communism, it needs its own Chairman Mao.


Well a great leap forward would certainly solve the population problem. Engineered famine, labor camps, and forced collectivization on an already worthless piece of land would certainly result in millions of deaths. And I honestly don't get the whole idea of America wanting to rule haiti. What do they have besides a horde of starving people? No oil, metals, industry, or arable land all they have are hordes of starving uneducated people. They have a few nice beaches I suppose but if we wanted that we'd just take over Costa Rica and we'd get some of the finest coffee in the world to boot.

Thats it war for coffee!! !



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27 Jan 2011, 3:11 pm

utherdoul wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
Haiti needs Communism, it needs its own Chairman Mao.


Well a great leap forward would certainly solve the population problem. Engineered famine, labor camps, and forced collectivization on an already worthless piece of land would certainly result in millions of deaths. And I honestly don't get the whole idea of America wanting to rule haiti. What do they have besides a horde of starving people? No oil, metals, industry, or arable land all they have are hordes of starving uneducated people. They have a few nice beaches I suppose but if we wanted that we'd just take over Costa Rica and we'd get some of the finest coffee in the world to boot.

Thats it war for coffee!! !


A war could destroy the coffee...

Back to being serious, as you and I have both pointed out the United States has no motive.



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31 Jan 2011, 7:07 am

US elites see the world as a giant chessboard. The idea of losing just one square on the board horrifies them. For one thing they have this idea that if one country escapes, others will follow. I find it amusing this idea of "what could they possibly want in Haiti? As there's nothing of great value there, they must have pure motives"... they want to OWN Haiti just as they want to own every other square on the chessboard. By the way, that's the name of Zbigniew Brzezinski's book; "The Grand Chessboard".

Chairman Mao has been a great success in China. He argued that China could not take the capitalist road because if it did giant corporations and imperial powers would dominate it. China had to build its own power first before it could have any kind of negotiating leverage with the capitalists. China did just that. As for famines in China, they used to happen all the time in the good old pre-Communist era. There's a reason why China's population exploded under Mao after centuries of stagnation.



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31 Jan 2011, 8:39 am

xenon13 wrote:
US elites see the world as a giant chessboard. The idea of losing just one square on the board horrifies them. For one thing they have this idea that if one country escapes, others will follow. I find it amusing this idea of "what could they possibly want in Haiti? As there's nothing of great value there, they must have pure motives"... they want to OWN Haiti just as they want to own every other square on the chessboard. By the way, that's the name of Zbigniew Brzezinski's book; "The Grand Chessboard".

Chairman Mao has been a great success in China. He argued that China could not take the capitalist road because if it did giant corporations and imperial powers would dominate it. China had to build its own power first before it could have any kind of negotiating leverage with the capitalists. China did just that. As for famines in China, they used to happen all the time in the good old pre-Communist era. There's a reason why China's population exploded under Mao after centuries of stagnation.


Shouldn't this posting be in PPR. Where is the science, math or computing technology in this post.

ruveyn



utherdoul
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31 Jan 2011, 2:18 pm

xenon13 wrote:
US elites see the world as a giant chessboard. The idea of losing just one square on the board horrifies them. For one thing they have this idea that if one country escapes, others will follow. I find it amusing this idea of "what could they possibly want in Haiti? As there's nothing of great value there, they must have pure motives"... they want to OWN Haiti just as they want to own every other square on the chessboard. By the way, that's the name of Zbigniew Brzezinski's book; "The Grand Chessboard".

Chairman Mao has been a great success in China. He argued that China could not take the capitalist road because if it did giant corporations and imperial powers would dominate it. China had to build its own power first before it could have any kind of negotiating leverage with the capitalists. China did just that. As for famines in China, they used to happen all the time in the good old pre-Communist era. There's a reason why China's population exploded under Mao after centuries of stagnation.


I'm not arguing our motives are pure a breakdown of haiti would send starving refugees flooding into the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Mexico, and of course here stateside and that's the last thing anyone wants. We enough poor folk of our own. Certainly you could look at US motives that way but Haiti has no strategic value. Besides military invasions are expensive, unpopular and they rarely work well in securing assets as Afghanistan and Iraq have proven. As for wanting to "own" every piece on the chess board life isn't a video game nor a board game. There are only a few "squares" that are really worth occupying and occupying them is costly. If we were doing this in Panama for example as we've done in the past you may have a point.

As for China China has only really been successful in the last twenty years or so as they've started integrating some capitalist philosophy into their economic system,. Even now they still have serious internal issues but if they continue to loosen economic restrictions and increase personal freedoms they'll thrive. I'm not a deep student of Chinese history but I knew one academic in his eighties last I saw him who talked to me about the horrors of being imprisoned in one of the communist labor camps and a number of Chinese students I've met while working who seem to agree that the gradual introduction of capitalism has been good for China. Mao made a number of critical mistakes which have cost China decades of lost progress and he killed enough people directly or by flawed economic policy to make Stalin look like a Saint.


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31 Jan 2011, 8:43 pm

xenon13 wrote:
US elites see the world as a giant chessboard. The idea of losing just one square on the board horrifies them. For one thing they have this idea that if one country escapes, others will follow. I find it amusing this idea of "what could they possibly want in Haiti? As there's nothing of great value there, they must have pure motives"... they want to OWN Haiti just as they want to own every other square on the chessboard. By the way, that's the name of Zbigniew Brzezinski's book; "The Grand Chessboard".


I think you are right there. As with every square on the Chess Board like securing the oil fields around the middle east as the supply runs out, it is about Globalisation. Securing resources so that when resources trickle down to smaller amounts that America has control of them and has all it's pawns stuck helping to fund the American monopolistic agenda.

Globalisation is a double edged sword. Tool for good and weapon of evil.

In the case of Haiti, I do not know too much of the particulars, but I do know that recently America offered Haiti a huge amount of GM seeds donated by the company Monsanto which they chose to burn, clearly after doing their own research on Monsanto's history of forcing farmers into financial slavery.

For the record it is not GM itself I see at the problem, it is the leading corporation behind it, Monsanto who is causing the trouble.


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01 Feb 2011, 6:50 pm

The use of capitalism in China helped it to get technology. The West would never have let it get technology from it if there was nothing in it for western companies. The foundations that Mao put helped make it to better deal with these people. Mao told Nixon at one point that he envisaged a future of China making the things used in the USA. That seems to be coming true.