Athens is burning...

Post Reply New Topic

Money has not existed for fifty years. When we quit minting silver. That $1 in silver is now in the mid thirties. A paper dollar is worth 3 Cents.

The Greeks borrowed so the political class could have jobs, a month off at Christmas, another at Easter, six weeks vacation, twenty Holidays, and a 32 hour work week, then retire at 58 with full pay for life, and medical.

They also maintain a huge army for their size, and the only enemy they have is the people.

Greeks are united behind one idea, none of them will pay taxes.

Jobs and income are power, the political, military, did not want to share power with mear labor. So wages and employment were kept down so the rich could have more power. All of the ruling group know that they only have the people to fear.

They have agreed to cut the minium wage 22%, no one in Government, Police, military, works for minium wage.

Church and State are the two big rackets, both live off of the people.

Organized Crime is a branch of both.

Ibn Khaldun documented this in 1300 as the way all governments had fallen before his time, and all money become debased. His work also applies to all governments since his time.

Cities, and governments, are a Ponzi.

When the workers asked the King for a better deal, the Military took over, called them Communists, and the streets ran with blood, Then this Democratic Government ran it into debt for 40 years.

The Army will have to do something about the Narco Terrorist, human trafficing Kulack unemployed workers who are selling little girls in their confirmation dresses into slavery in Syria for the al Kaida virgin pool.

Otherwise, why does Greece even need an Army?

We must set up check points and strip search everyone who moves around, for Freedom!

"Money and talent will move toward freedom," Ibn Khaldun

"No one did anything wrong, it was all legal." Obama

"We had to destroy the village to save it." Viet Nam

"We had to destroy Freedom to save it," America

"We spent the Social Security Trust Fund on Homeland Security." FEMA

Greece needs to leave the eurozone (and perhaps even the EU) and be able to become independent once again. The eurocrats will never allow that to happen though.

The Baltic states did something else, but to the same effect. Salaries for doctors, teachers etc.. and public spending were lowered instead of devaluation and exchange course alterations.

The consequence is that hospitals, schools, libraries etc doesn't work anymore and a massive brain drain.

It doesn't make sense to leave people out of work. Because work = economy.

@Tequila, Only states that have similar economic structure should entangle in a common currency. South Europe isn't as productive as the north. Thus a mismatch that wrecks havoc.

Thing is, it's basically too late for Greece - Germany and the rest aren't going to hand over yet more money without demanding pretty stringent conditions, so basically Greece's only options are to either comply or to pull an Argentina. To rail against austerity while refusing to quit the euro and default is delusional. For what it's worth, I think they'd be better off pulling an Argentina (the purchasing power of wages would collapse, but at least there'd be jobs), but as long as they want to cling to the euro, it's Germany who pays the piper and calls the tune.
Let's face it, Greece has been incredibly badly governed for a long time - despite decades of massive agricultural and other subsidies from the EU, they borrowed like there was no tomorrow, and cooked the books. Yes, the Greek working class is doing badly, but they have the option of emigrating legally to anywhere in the EU,unlike Third World peoples. Plenty of Third World countries manage their financial affairs much better - I increasingly admire the Brazilians, who in a relatively short time turned their country from bankrupt basket case to booming creditor nation.
More widely, the eurozone has behaved like a bunch of banana republics in taking economic decisions (on, say, currency union) on the basis of purely political considerations. The very decision to seek a common currency is an example, there are plenty of free trade areas that don't have a common currency, beginning with NAFTA.

I have been trying for months and months to understand exactly what is going on in the Eurozone. There is a lot of obfuscation and ideology that clouds the issue, and you get the worrying sense that economists don't understand what is happening any more than the common man does.

But I think that this is the central theme: you should choose either separate sovereign nations, or the United States of Europe. If you only go halfway, the inherent contradictions will cause all sorts of problems.

1) Question like "where did the money go" irk me a little because it seems to imply the only problem here is a lack of little pieces of paper with numbers on them. The problem with Greece is they are consuming real resources at a rate faster than they can produce them. The credit was just a fancy way to paper over the deficit. REGARDLESS of the financial jugging 'imposed' or adopted, the reality is Greece will have to spend below their means when people come to their senses and stop throwing good money after bad.

(not only Greece, but most nations)

It's like having a $50,000 limit on a credit card, living like a king for a month, then asking "where did the money go?"

2) The minimum wage only harms low income earners and ought to be repealed. A wage is just like every other price and setting it artificially has the same unintended consequences. The same goes for mandated costs to employment. The powers that be may not work minimum wage, but that's besides the point.

3) Nothing will improve until the debt is liquidated. Wisely, this Argentinian tells Greece to default now and save themselves a lot of drawn-out pain and suffering:

http://www.eutimes.net/2012/02/argentin ... fault-now/

So long the debt looms over the Greek economy, nobody is going to invest there. Any profits will be siphoned off to the debt overlords on the Greece plantation.

4) The Euro, like all fiat currencies, is doomed. You can only prolong the inevitable my slooowly killing it like the dollar (which doesn't by 2¢ of a 1913 dollar). Greece would do well to get out the door first rather than last. They can get out of the EU entirely, reduce the regulation burden for new startups in their country, and thus attract capital from all over the world.

However, I doubt many people in Greece know WTF they're doing. They still live under the illusion that democracy can change reality and thus will bicker, whine, riot, and destroy whatever is left...and who will care?

Well, to get someone less abstract, I'll go on the record as saying that it WILL happen here.