Another teabagger shooting spree...oh wait...

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If you undermine the first amendment, there is nothing preventing the same precedent from coming back at you in the future.

Even if it is about the first amendment, homophobes should be cured of being secretly gay/straight.

Maybe I should have phrased it better. I'm just tired of people saying they're so incredibly awful without bothering to say why.

Because they are against gay people, for curing of gays, and extremely homophobic. My fellow liberals will be able to find sources that have what they say. I fear viruses from their site.

You will not get the time you spend explaining this [obvious fact] to him back, he is just messing with you. Really, don't bother

That could mean a lot of things. It could mean they're against people who are gay in a nasty, personal sort of way. It could also mean that they are on a different side from most gay people on some political issue, but don't have any ill will towards gay people. Or anything in between.


I really don't like the term 'homophobia', for a number of reasons, but the reason that matters here is that people use 'homophobia' to mean various different things. I can't tell which meaning you're actually talking about.


This tells me something specific and factual about them. It would be verifiable, if I felt like verifying it. I don't think it would justify all the hate they're getting in this thread by itself, though.


I don't mess with people.

But we're talking about civil rights for a group of Americans here. To say that they might be on the opposite political side of gays but feel no ill will toward them is equivalent to saying they're politically opposed to - say - blacks, but hold no hard feelings against them. In either case, it's a matter of homophobia or racism, regardless of what someone tells himself or herself.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Here ya go - knock yourself out: http://www.frc.org/
It's got to be more efficient for you to go and see for yourself than just fisking posts to death here.

I wasn't alive when the black civil rights stuff was going on, but I have heard some specific things about it. There were issues with being allowed in diners. There were laws about where people could sit in a bus. Some people weren't allowed in certain schools. There were allowed and disallowed drinking fountains.

I don't hear that kind of specificity with the gay rights stuff. You say we're talking about civil rights, but the only thing that might fit into that category that I've heard specifically mentioned before is gay marriage. If all you're talking about here is gay marriage, rather than a bunch of things, why call it civil rights instead of gay marriage? If you're talking about a bunch of things, can I get a list, instead of a generic term?

This is a bit of a tangent, and I'm kind of venting about certain things I've seen a lot that bother me. I'm not trying to get on your case specifically, so don't feel like you have to answer me if you don't want to.


Sure. Are you saying that's hard to imagine?

Many black people tend to vote Democrat in the US, so enormous numbers of Republicans do this all the time. It isn't because they don't like black people, it's because they happen to be on the opposite political side than the majority of black people.

I'd be suspicious of a person who opposed interracial marriages, and I'd disagree with them, but I could imagine such a person not having a prejudice against black people. It is a very long way from having a particular theory about how marriages ought to work on the one hand, and burning a cross in somebody's yard and making slurs against them on the other.

You missed the point of my complaint. I'm not trying to find out details about the FRC. I'm just tired of seeing a lot of unsubstantiated and nonspecific criticisms of them.

I'd rather hear about somebody's problem with the FRC over something specific than see yet another random adjective thrown at them.

Interracial marriage was in fact a bone of contention during the civil rights era - gay marriage is just a much of a civil right. And it's more than just that for gays. It's a matter of being able to adopt children, teach in schools, or even live without fear of being fired from a job or denied residency due to sexual orientation.
And by the way, I can't imagine how a person could oppose interracial marriage without being a racist. What other arguments could one seriously have to be against two people of different races marrying?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

On both sides of race whether you are black or white, being against interracial marriage is being racist. Also gay rights are civil rights. Many religious people think you aren't born gay. That is like saying you weren't born black. They want to cure you, any such programs need to be eliminated from existence because of their hatred of what being gay stands for. Also there are many blacks who will either not vote or vote for the wrong party because of Obama's support of gay marriage. Their are too many families who kick their children out of their home because they come out. And finally too many husbands or wives who are in straight relationships because you get more support from your community, for being in a straight marriage.

Holy Gods fisking one line?

@Vigilans: Get off my back. Don't make fun of my posting style. Don't make false insinuations that I'm messing with people. Leave me alone.

Thank you for the list. I remember seeing something about adoption awhile back, but I haven't seen anything specific on any of the others.


There's an argument that I heard at some point that different races were somehow incompatible, and that while each race was equally good, they ought to be separated. If someone were to believe that (including the 'equally good' part), they could be against interracial marriage without being racist. I am not, just to be clear, saying that that's a good way to look at it, or even that the idea isn't a bit silly.


I'm not going to say the 'curing' idea is any good, because I don't think it is, but I think you ought to be pretty careful about how you use a word like 'hatred'. You may have been doing that to an extent, since you're saying they hate an idea instead of people, but I've seen the word 'hate' thrown around way to casually in this context, so I thought it was worth mentioning.


That's just straight up BS. Nobody should treat their kids like that.

Google the phrase "morris dees is a pedophile" for some entertaining reading.

I can tell you right now that anyone who thinks any different races are incompatible is a racist. Individuals might be incompatible, but not whole races of people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer