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Video games in crosshairs after Newtown shootings

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shrox
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21 Dec 2012, 1:06 am

JBlitzen wrote:
If seeing fictional violence in a video game is bad, what's that say about seeing extreme real-world violence on the nightly news?

Where's the article about journalists being in the crosshairs?

I guess it's right next to the news story about SSRI drugs being in the crosshairs, which is aired between ads paid for by pharmaceutical companies.

Sure, haha.


I said to deny media's influence on people is wrong. Advertising proves that.



Tensu
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21 Dec 2012, 9:00 pm

You kill pretend soliders in a game of chess. Why isn't anyone attacking chess? :roll:



shrox
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21 Dec 2012, 9:03 pm

Tensu wrote:
You kill pretend soliders in a game of chess. Why isn't anyone attacking chess? :roll:


Really? You can't see the difference between an icon of representation and a visual and graphic depiction of killing?



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21 Dec 2012, 9:13 pm

shrox wrote:
Tensu wrote:
You kill pretend soliders in a game of chess. Why isn't anyone attacking chess? :roll:


Really? You can't see the difference between an icon of representation and a visual and graphic depiction of killing?


First off, in most video games, the depiction of killing is hardly graphic.

Second off, even in regards to the truly bloody, gory games, in how many of those games is the violence truly realistic?

Thirdly, there are graphic depictions of killing in movies. Will you ban movies too?

Fourth, and as previously stated, I've been plying "T" and even "M" rated games since I was in elementary school and I've never killed anyone.



shrox
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21 Dec 2012, 9:22 pm

Tensu wrote:
shrox wrote:
Tensu wrote:
You kill pretend soliders in a game of chess. Why isn't anyone attacking chess? :roll:


Really? You can't see the difference between an icon of representation and a visual and graphic depiction of killing?


First off, in most video games, the depiction of killing is hardly graphic.

Second off, even in regards to the truly bloody, gory games, in how many of those games is the violence truly realistic?

Thirdly, there are graphic depictions of killing in movies. Will you ban movies too?

Fourth, and as previously stated, I've been plying "T" and even "M" rated games since I was in elementary school and I've never killed anyone.


My resume states my tenure at the major video game companies as art director and designer. I know what I am talking about.



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21 Dec 2012, 9:23 pm

I'm surprised this nonsense is still around when everyone plays video games. Perfect example of the false cause fallacy. You may as well say having a Y chromosome causes mass murder (though I know some extremists who might say just that :roll: ).



Last edited by Nonperson on 21 Dec 2012, 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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21 Dec 2012, 9:26 pm

shrox wrote:
My resume states my tenure at the major video game companies as art director and designer. I know what I am talking about.


If a physics professor told me fire was cold*, I would not believe him.

*Relative to temperatures typically encountered by humans in their day-to-day lives, of course.



Last edited by Tensu on 21 Dec 2012, 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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21 Dec 2012, 9:27 pm

shrox wrote:
My resume states my tenure at the major video game companies as art director and designer. I know what I am talking about.


I think a psychologist might be more qualified to answer this particular question.



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21 Dec 2012, 9:27 pm

shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
raisedbyignorance wrote:
13 years ago, we were blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine. Needless to say our approach towards scapegoating has not evolved much since then.


Let us not forget Rammstein and KMFDM, some of the perpetrators' favorite bands. The news even played a song about using a shotgun to kill kids in a school, claiming it was a KMFDM song. Having every album in their discography, I knew that the band never released or even produced such a track. If you listened to the vocals, it was painfully obvious they weren't sung by Sascha or anyone else affiliated with the band. I can see where they get off with saying "weisses Fleisch" by Rammstein was about killing someone at school, though according to Rammstein, that's not what it's about (the lines that translate to "I'm on the schoolyard and I'm ready to kill / nobody here knows of my loneliness were what put it in the spotlight). Music and videogames do not drive people to commit crimes anymore than Sam Carr's dog told David Berkowitz to kill.


What's the first thing a kid does after watching Superman? Uses a towel for a cape and jumps off the couch or even the roof. To say media doesn't influence people is just wrong. Advertising is based on media's ability to influence people.


Influence and compelling individuals to do something are two whole different things. Commercials may be designed to influence consumer habits, but that commercial doesn't force the individual to do so, nor does it force the individual to like what they are advertising. As for the Superman bit, I've never wanted to don a towel and leap to my demise. Listening to Rammstein, playing Doom and watching Superman doesn't create a supervillain that shoots up schools while listening to industrial music and wearing a cape. If you're that easily controlled by external input, that's your problem, not mine. I listened to the same music as Klebold and Harris, but I haven't committed a school shooting or even thought of doing such a thing. That alone disproves your "fact" that music and other media causes one to commit crimes.



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21 Dec 2012, 9:48 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:
shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
raisedbyignorance wrote:
13 years ago, we were blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine. Needless to say our approach towards scapegoating has not evolved much since then.


Let us not forget Rammstein and KMFDM, some of the perpetrators' favorite bands. The news even played a song about using a shotgun to kill kids in a school, claiming it was a KMFDM song. Having every album in their discography, I knew that the band never released or even produced such a track. If you listened to the vocals, it was painfully obvious they weren't sung by Sascha or anyone else affiliated with the band. I can see where they get off with saying "weisses Fleisch" by Rammstein was about killing someone at school, though according to Rammstein, that's not what it's about (the lines that translate to "I'm on the schoolyard and I'm ready to kill / nobody here knows of my loneliness were what put it in the spotlight). Music and videogames do not drive people to commit crimes anymore than Sam Carr's dog told David Berkowitz to kill.


What's the first thing a kid does after watching Superman? Uses a towel for a cape and jumps off the couch or even the roof. To say media doesn't influence people is just wrong. Advertising is based on media's ability to influence people.


Influence and compelling individuals to do something are two whole different things. Commercials may be designed to influence consumer habits, but that commercial doesn't force the individual to do so, nor does it force the individual to like what they are advertising. As for the Superman bit, I've never wanted to don a towel and leap to my demise. Listening to Rammstein, playing Doom and watching Superman doesn't create a supervillain that shoots up schools while listening to industrial music and wearing a cape. If you're that easily controlled by external input, that's your problem, not mine. I listened to the same music as Klebold and Harris, but I haven't committed a school shooting or even thought of doing such a thing. That alone disproves your "fact" that music and other media causes one to commit crimes.


Consider this, 100 people are in a room and they all have one gun each with a 30 round magazine. If only 1% (one person) of the people in the room starts shooting at the others in the room, is this low percentage acceptable?

Change the number to .1% of 1000, .01% of 10,000, .001% of 100,000. What is an acceptable percentage?



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21 Dec 2012, 10:00 pm

Video game graphics are more akin to cartoons than anything else. We adult gamers wish they were more realistic like real life (games like Bioshock would be so trippy), but alas, we're still stuck with characters with the same amount of facial expressions as Kirsten Stewart. Rockstar made an attempt to change that, but from what I hear, the game was seriously lacking in other areas and it wasn't a big hit.

If politicians want kids to stop playing violent games, maybe they should start enforcing the rating system already in place? Maybe we should start focusing getting parents to abide by this system? The video game industry has been pretty good about arming parents with the tools they need to make sure their kids are not playing games unfit for their age group. Game consoles come with parental controls. I had my 360 set up so it required a password in order to play a rated 'M' game.

In the end, the problem isn't the gaming industry, it's the parents for not caring about what their children are playing.



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21 Dec 2012, 10:05 pm

Pileo wrote:
... it's the parents for not caring about what their children are playing.


And in doing so, they don't care about you.



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21 Dec 2012, 11:12 pm

shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
raisedbyignorance wrote:
13 years ago, we were blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine. Needless to say our approach towards scapegoating has not evolved much since then.


Let us not forget Rammstein and KMFDM, some of the perpetrators' favorite bands. The news even played a song about using a shotgun to kill kids in a school, claiming it was a KMFDM song. Having every album in their discography, I knew that the band never released or even produced such a track. If you listened to the vocals, it was painfully obvious they weren't sung by Sascha or anyone else affiliated with the band. I can see where they get off with saying "weisses Fleisch" by Rammstein was about killing someone at school, though according to Rammstein, that's not what it's about (the lines that translate to "I'm on the schoolyard and I'm ready to kill / nobody here knows of my loneliness were what put it in the spotlight). Music and videogames do not drive people to commit crimes anymore than Sam Carr's dog told David Berkowitz to kill.


What's the first thing a kid does after watching Superman? Uses a towel for a cape and jumps off the couch or even the roof. To say media doesn't influence people is just wrong. Advertising is based on media's ability to influence people.


Influence and compelling individuals to do something are two whole different things. Commercials may be designed to influence consumer habits, but that commercial doesn't force the individual to do so, nor does it force the individual to like what they are advertising. As for the Superman bit, I've never wanted to don a towel and leap to my demise. Listening to Rammstein, playing Doom and watching Superman doesn't create a supervillain that shoots up schools while listening to industrial music and wearing a cape. If you're that easily controlled by external input, that's your problem, not mine. I listened to the same music as Klebold and Harris, but I haven't committed a school shooting or even thought of doing such a thing. That alone disproves your "fact" that music and other media causes one to commit crimes.


Consider this, 100 people are in a room and they all have one gun each with a 30 round magazine. If only 1% (one person) of the people in the room starts shooting at the others in the room, is this low percentage acceptable?

Change the number to .1% of 1000, .01% of 10,000, .001% of 100,000. What is an acceptable percentage?


Well by that [sarcasm] infallible logic [/sarcasm], I guess we need to ban cars and alcohol. Afterall, people are killed in motor vehicle accidents and by alcohol toxicity, not to mention drunk driving kills people. While we're at it, I guess we better start banning balconies, since children have died from falling off of them. What is an acceptible percentage of fatalities and injuries from these?
That's what I thought...
Your logic is severely flawed.



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21 Dec 2012, 11:31 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:
shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
raisedbyignorance wrote:
13 years ago, we were blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine. Needless to say our approach towards scapegoating has not evolved much since then.


Let us not forget Rammstein and KMFDM, some of the perpetrators' favorite bands. The news even played a song about using a shotgun to kill kids in a school, claiming it was a KMFDM song. Having every album in their discography, I knew that the band never released or even produced such a track. If you listened to the vocals, it was painfully obvious they weren't sung by Sascha or anyone else affiliated with the band. I can see where they get off with saying "weisses Fleisch" by Rammstein was about killing someone at school, though according to Rammstein, that's not what it's about (the lines that translate to "I'm on the schoolyard and I'm ready to kill / nobody here knows of my loneliness were what put it in the spotlight). Music and videogames do not drive people to commit crimes anymore than Sam Carr's dog told David Berkowitz to kill.


What's the first thing a kid does after watching Superman? Uses a towel for a cape and jumps off the couch or even the roof. To say media doesn't influence people is just wrong. Advertising is based on media's ability to influence people.


Influence and compelling individuals to do something are two whole different things. Commercials may be designed to influence consumer habits, but that commercial doesn't force the individual to do so, nor does it force the individual to like what they are advertising. As for the Superman bit, I've never wanted to don a towel and leap to my demise. Listening to Rammstein, playing Doom and watching Superman doesn't create a supervillain that shoots up schools while listening to industrial music and wearing a cape. If you're that easily controlled by external input, that's your problem, not mine. I listened to the same music as Klebold and Harris, but I haven't committed a school shooting or even thought of doing such a thing. That alone disproves your "fact" that music and other media causes one to commit crimes.


Consider this, 100 people are in a room and they all have one gun each with a 30 round magazine. If only 1% (one person) of the people in the room starts shooting at the others in the room, is this low percentage acceptable?

Change the number to .1% of 1000, .01% of 10,000, .001% of 100,000. What is an acceptable percentage?


Well by that [sarcasm] infallible logic [/sarcasm], I guess we need to ban cars and alcohol. Afterall, people are killed in motor vehicle accidents and by alcohol toxicity, not to mention drunk driving kills people. While we're at it, I guess we better start banning balconies, since children have died from falling off of them. What is an acceptible percentage of fatalities and injuries from these?
That's what I thought...
Your logic is severely flawed.


Not really, that's why there are DUI checkpoints, People got tired of the alcohol caused carnage on the roads.



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21 Dec 2012, 11:46 pm

shrox wrote:
Not really, that's why there are DUI checkpoints, People got tired of the alcohol caused carnage on the roads.


And eviscerated the 4th Amendment in their zeal to DO SOMETHING!! !!, even something ineffective and burdensome. Seriously, f*ck those people, they're building a world in which an adult won't be allowed to eat a steak because a baby might choke on it. (apologies to whoever's quote I mangled there)


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21 Dec 2012, 11:55 pm

Dox47 wrote:
shrox wrote:
Not really, that's why there are DUI checkpoints, People got tired of the alcohol caused carnage on the roads.


And eviscerated the 4th Amendment in their zeal to DO SOMETHING!! !!, even something ineffective and burdensome. Seriously, f*ck those people, they're building a world in which an adult won't be allowed to eat a steak because a baby might choke on it. (apologies to whoever's quote I mangled there)


And in this brave new world, a baby won't be able to cry without being diagnosed with some sort of disorder and experimented on by an adult.

That way everybody's life is ruined! Equality at last!