Saudi man to be paralyzed as punishment

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OliveOilMom
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04 Apr 2013, 4:16 pm

trollcatman wrote:

So if your parent/child/sibling committed a horrible crime, would you rat them out? I think most people know that would be the right thing to do, but actually doing it seems to me really difficult (and I don't even have siblings or children).

I would never rat my child out for that. Ever. I would help my child get rid of a body if need be, or I would confess to doing it myself if it came down to my child getting caught, but I would never, ever do that to my child. I wouldn't support what they did probably, but that doesn't mean I'd have a hand in sending them to prison or the electric chair. It also means I'd do everything in my power to keep them out of it.

As I said, I'm a hypocrite when it comes to my own kids, but I suspect everybody would be.

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visagrunt
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04 Apr 2013, 5:55 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:

No, not at all. I've always been for the death penalty. This didn't happen with my ex until a few years ago. My views on it have nothing to do with him. I feel that when a person kills someone on purpose, and it's not a situation where the person they killed "needed killing" (ie; they shoot somebody who has molested their child, or raped their wife or mother or something like that) then they are obviously not safe to be around and probably never will be so execute them. I also think that if we used the death penalty more often and much sooner after the conviction then it would actually act as a deterrent. As it is now there is no guarantee or even a high probability that a murderer will get the needle and if he is sentenced to it, it happens so far down the road that thinking about getting killed 20 or 30 years from now wouldn't really stop somebody if they are determined. I truly believe that if we have a speedy and certain death penalty that is used for all murder cases that fit certain criteria (and not things that will be rare, but the types of murder that are common) that after people start seeing that it really will happen, and soon too, it would deter a whole lot of people. Not everybody, but I think murder would really drop off.

Fair enough.

I think you are wrong in each and every assumption you make and conclusion that you draw--but I respect that there is a legitimate difference of opinion that is unaffected by your personal circumstances.

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Tensu
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04 Apr 2013, 11:26 pm

Fogman wrote:

For those of you who want to turn America into a Biblically based culture, take a good look, because the US will become just like Saudi Arabia, who despite having all the modern conviencies of any Western European culture, are still firmly rooted in what is essentially an unchanged version of the same culture that your Jesus was born into 2000 or so years ago.

Actually, Ruvyn, this actually IS the same god and the same mountain of the Jewish YHWH, albiet without the past 2000 years of changing, and moderation of doctrinal belief that Judaism, Christianity, and more liberal strains of Islam have progressed in.

Remember the old Judaic law of retribution via 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'? --This is the same put into practice.

Also, because of the fact that Saudi Arabia is the heart of the Islamic world, and they have plenty of oil money to fund Wahhabism/Salafism, their strain of Islam is quickly becoming the standard form of Islam. When they announce a Wahhabi/Salafi Califate, be very afraid.

Oh yes, because building a civilization founded on the ideas of mercy, forgiveness, love, and not passing judgement which Jesus preached could only result in a bloodthirsty, vindictive society. :roll:

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05 Apr 2013, 8:45 am

Crusades?
Salem witch trials?

I don't really need to go on, do I?

ruveyn
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05 Apr 2013, 8:51 am

kouzoku wrote:

Crusades?
Salem witch trials?

Crusades 800 years ago. Salem Witch Trials nearly 400 years ago. Latest Muslim bombing of innocents -yesterday's news.

Need I go on?

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05 Apr 2013, 8:58 am

kouzoku wrote:

Tensu wrote:

Crusades?
Salem witch trials?

These were not founded on the ideas of mercy, forgiveness, love, and not passing judgement which Jesus preached. Trying to show ideals to be flawed by giving examples of people who didn't attempt them doesn't work.

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kouzoku
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05 Apr 2013, 10:12 am

Christians act out of hatred every single day. It doesn't matter when it happened. I'm pointing out obvious examples of terrible things done in the name of the Christian God.

A lot of people who do wrong in the name of a God claim that it is out of "goodness".

In regards to everyone living according Jesus' teachings, you are talking about a utopia where everyone wants to do the right thing, and that doesn't exist. Such a utopia would also not require the premise of Christianity.

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05 Apr 2013, 12:14 pm

kouzoku wrote:

Christians act out of hatred every single day. It doesn't matter when it happened. I'm pointing out obvious examples of terrible things done in the name of the Christian God.

Stopping the bad things does not count?

kouzoku
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05 Apr 2013, 12:33 pm

Bad according to who? Christians? And which Christians, because all the divisions of Christianity seem to disagree with each other about that.

kouzoku
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05 Apr 2013, 12:37 pm

What is the deal with Christians trying to force their ideals on everyone else or saying things like "Laws should be made according Christian law" or whatever? If you really advocated for peace, love, understanding, etc, wouldn't you advocate for a free society where people can believe what they want AND be good people who love and care for each other?

Because there ARE plenty of non-Christians who are great people.

I am not against Christianity, but rather their feeling of superiority and that everyone should live according to what they believe. I'm against atheists who behave in the same manner.

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05 Apr 2013, 2:20 pm

kouzoku wrote:

Christians act out of hatred every single day.

Incredible statements like this should not be made without supporting evidence.

Quote:

A lot of people who do wrong in the name of a God claim that it is out of "goodness".

A lot of people who do wrong claim it is out of goodness. People don't generally claim to be acting out of evil motives. People generally claim to be doing the right thing.

Quote:

If you really advocated for peace, love, understanding, etc, wouldn't you advocate for a free society where people can believe what they want AND be good people who love and care for each other?

Most of this is a tautology, and the part that isn't is assuming that your idea of what good is is what good actually is. In other words, you are doing what you're accusing Christians of doing -- assuming that you know what good really is and wondering why we can't all just do that.

Somewhat less importantly, you're assuming that Christians would oppose a free society.

Quote:

I'm against atheists who behave in the same manner.

You say this, but you are ranting against Christians, and you are not ranting against atheists.

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05 Apr 2013, 2:26 pm

kouzoku wrote:

Bad according to who? Christians? And which Christians, because all the divisions of Christianity seem to disagree with each other about that.

In all fairness, I doubt any of the divisions of Christianity - with the possible exception of certain witch fearing groups in Africa - support the burning of witches or Crusades today.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

kouzoku
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05 Apr 2013, 3:36 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

kouzoku wrote:

Christians act out of hatred every single day.

Incredible statements like this should not be made without supporting evidence.

Quote:

A lot of people who do wrong in the name of a God claim that it is out of "goodness".

A lot of people who do wrong claim it is out of goodness. People don't generally claim to be acting out of evil motives. People generally claim to be doing the right thing.

Quote:

If you really advocated for peace, love, understanding, etc, wouldn't you advocate for a free society where people can believe what they want AND be good people who love and care for each other?

Quote:

I'm against atheists who behave in the same manner.

You say this, but you are ranting against Christians, and you are not ranting against atheists.

1. How can I cite things I see and hear every day in my life? You will just tell me they are isolated incidents as if I live in a vacuum or that I am lying about them

2. Exactly. That's what I just said.

3. I'm not assuming I know what good actually is. Just pointing out what it isn't, and an obvious alternative to making everything adhere to "Christian law". I'm saying no one should impose their morality on someone else.

4. According to many posts on WP made my Christians, they certainly do seem to oppose one because their objective morality should prevail, at least in the USA.

5. Because I'm addressing this issue with regards to Christianity. I've complained about atheists elsewhere on the forum; check my posts if you are in doubt. I was pointing out that Christians aren't the only ones who want to run things solely their way.

A lot of this is very pointless and is like debate for its own sake.

kouzoku
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05 Apr 2013, 3:39 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

So...... you don't think there are any Christians who would be on board for killing all the Muslims in the world if they could get away with it? I'm sure there are and also that they'd use 9/11 as a cover for the actual motive.

You might not think that way, but there are many people who have such thoughts.

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05 Apr 2013, 5:28 pm

kouzoku wrote:

There are hateful bigots justifying violence and murder with Christianity, but I doubt you'd find legitimate Christians among them. Unfortunately, such bigots are ranting from the pulpit on TV and/or mega churches, and have even gotten them elected to public office by evoking the name of the All Mighty. I don't believe, though, that such persons make up the majority of Americans calling themselves Christians.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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05 Apr 2013, 5:47 pm

<sigh> Can't we all just get along?

Personally I don't care if you are Christian, Muslim, pagan, hindu, Buddhist, or atheist (or indeed anything else, no wish to offend any groups I have left out). As long as you are not hurting anyone, what does it matter if you believe in god, Allah, or a three headed blue monkey??

I am no expert on religion, but I am pretty sure that the basic premise of most of them is good. Religion gives some people hope, guidelines to live by, and a sense of belonging. It is only when people turn 'belonging' to one group into 'therefore the others must be wrong' that there is a problem.

Some of the 'fire and brimstone' and 'an eye for an eye' stuff I am pretty sure was meant as lessons or a warning to people, and was rather heavy handed because when it was written people weren't highly educated, so you couldn't be too subtle.

I think a large proportion of religious people are just getting on with their lives as best they can, and not worrying about the rest of the world. The issues seem to be with extremists (from all belief groups), people who want to take things too literally, or people who are determined to twist the words to suit themselves.

Well, that's my two cents worth. Tolerance people; tolerance :wall:

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