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Supremes Approve DNA Testing of Arrested Suspects

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What does this mean to you?
Awright! It's about time! 100% in favor. 21%  21%  [ 4 ]
Mostly good. I have some doubts, though. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Mneh ... whatever ... don't do the crime - don't do the time. 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
While I see some merit, I am aginst the idea. 32%  32%  [ 6 ]
There is no way that they're getting my DNA! 100% Against. 21%  21%  [ 4 ]
On Planet X, everyone has the same DNA (it's in the ice cream, too!) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Other: __________________ (Please explain). 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 19

Fnord
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04 Jun 2013, 12:10 pm

xenon13 wrote:
They can find out all sorts of things about your alleged genetic defects.

Evidence, please?



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04 Jun 2013, 12:27 pm

Fnord wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
They can find out all sorts of things about your alleged genetic defects.

Evidence, please?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca
There is your evidence :P


As the Human Genome project keeps advancing, that could become a legitimate concern though, probably within my lifetime. But I believe this issue is about legally obtaining someone's DNA in a way that wouldn't be dismissed by a court; I am sure there are many ways to obtain it illegaly already, and there is not much that can be done to stop it.


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04 Jun 2013, 12:36 pm

Shatbat wrote:
Fnord wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
They can find out all sorts of things about your alleged genetic defects.
Evidence, please?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca There is your evidence...

Citing fiction as evidence simply will not hold up. "Gattaca" is a work of fiction.

However, given the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that "Gattaca" is even remotely valid, answer this question:

What are YOU going to do about it?



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04 Jun 2013, 12:43 pm

That was a joke. And well, we are not discussing what are we going to do about it just yet. And my answer would be nothing, because I trust I'll never be a criminal so genetic evidence will more likely exonerate me than condemn me, so such a law couldn't hurt me, and if future me becomes a criminal then he'd deserve it.

And in the case someone wants to obtain it illegally in a context where genetic discrimination is possible, well, having to keep track of every hair, skin shed, droplet ov various bodily fluids and who knows what else would be way too much trouble, but at least in the US there is a law that prohibites discrimination based on someone's genetic information and that must be worth something.


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Last edited by Shatbat on 05 Jun 2013, 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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04 Jun 2013, 12:59 pm

Shatbat wrote:
... we are not discussing what are we going to do about it just yet...

We are now!

Shatbat wrote:
... And my answer would be nothing...

Same here. What could be done, anyway?

Shatbat wrote:
... because I trust I'll never be a criminal so genetic evidence will more likely exonerate me than condemn me, so such a law couldn't help me, and if future me becomes a criminal then he'd deserve it.

My reasoning, as well.

Shatbat wrote:
And in the case someone wants to obtain it illegally in a context where genetic discrimination is possible, well, having to keep track of every hair, skin shed, droplet of various bodily fluids and who knows what else would be way too much trouble, but at least in the US there is a law that prohibits discrimination based on someone's genetic information and that must be worth something.

Only time will tell...



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04 Jun 2013, 5:32 pm

Sigh.

Some of you really haven't a clue how it works in other parts of the world, have you?

Look up the UK's NDNAD. You'll be horrified.



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04 Jun 2013, 5:54 pm

^ Spot on.


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Fnord
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04 Jun 2013, 6:51 pm

Wikipedia wrote:
The United Kingdom National DNA Database (NDNAD; officially the UK National Criminal Intelligence DNA Database) is a national DNA Database that was set up in 1995. As of the end of 2005, it carried the profiles of around 3.1 million people. In March 2012 the database contained an estimated 5,950,612 individuals. The database, which grows by 30,000 samples each month, is populated by samples recovered from crime scenes and taken from police suspects[1] and, in England and Wales, anyone arrested and detained at a police station.

Only patterns of short tandem repeats are stored in the NDNAD - not a person's full genomic sequence. Currently the ten loci of the SGM+ system are analysed, resulting in a string of 20 numbers, being two allele repeats from each of the ten loci. Amelogenin is used for a rapid test of a donor's sex.

However, individuals' skin or blood samples are also kept permanently linked to the database and can contain complete genetic information. Because DNA is inherited, the database can also be used to indirectly identify many others in the population related to a database subject. Stored samples can also degrade and become useless, particularly those taken with dry brushes and swabs.

The UK NDNAD is run by the Home Office, after transferring from the custodianship of the National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) on 1 October 2012. A major expansion to include all known active offenders was funded between April 2000 and March 2005 at a cost of over £300 million.[2][3]

References:

[1] - "All UK 'must be on DNA database". BBC. 5 September 2007. Retrieved 2007-09-05.
[2] - DNA Expansion Programme 2000–2005: Reporting achievement. Home Office. October 2005. Retrieved 2008-12-06
[3] - The national DNA database. Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology. February 2006. postnote 258. Retrieved 2008-12-06

That third paragraph might cause some concern among the conspiricists. However, here in the States, there was a recent case where an arrest and conviction was obtained because the father of the perpetrator had DNA that gave a partial match to the DNA found at a crime scene.

"Dad’s DNA Helps Convict Porter County Man of Burglary"

Quote:
The sample showed Sanders’ father has a 99.9 percent probability of paternity of whoever left blood at the scene.

Clear justification of the process, and no "horror" involved.

How is this bad? Was it "unfair" to the criminal to be caught this way? Was he being discriminated against in any way?



Last edited by Fnord on 04 Jun 2013, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xenon13
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04 Jun 2013, 6:52 pm

How does anyone know they won't be a criminal? Have you seen the laws? In Canada, it says under Article 129 that if the fuzz tell you to tackle a maniac, you must do it, or else you are guilty of an indictable or summary offence!



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04 Jun 2013, 6:54 pm

xenon13 wrote:
How does anyone know they won't be a criminal? Have you seen the laws? In Canada, it says under Article 129 that if the fuzz tell you to tackle a maniac, you must do it, or else you are guilty of an indictable or summary offence!

This has NOTHING to do with DNA being used as biometric data.

We're all aware of your opinions of law enforcement.



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04 Jun 2013, 7:21 pm

Under Article 66 of the Criminal Code, if someone is in a group of three people the police can arrest them at will ostensibly for appearing in any way scary... which could amount to anything. It's an arrest first, let the courts figure it out law... if the fuzz was to watch anyone carefully they can find a crime. Why, if the fuzz harrass anyone they can easily be tricked into a crime. It's that easy.

I think it is wrong for people to have to surrender their DNA and be filed away like this because the police is harrassing them or using some idiotic law abusively.



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04 Jun 2013, 11:03 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Under Article 66 of the Criminal Code...

Whose criminal code? Links, please.

xenon13 wrote:
... if someone is in a group of three people the police can arrest them at will ostensibly for appearing in any way scary... which could amount to anything. It's an arrest first, let the courts figure it out law... if the police was to watch anyone carefully they can find a crime...

Everyone is guilty of something, kid.

xenon13 wrote:
... Why, if the police harass anyone they can easily be tricked into a crime. It's that easy.

Evidence, please?

xenon13 wrote:
I think it is wrong for people to have to surrender their DNA and be filed away like this because the police is harassing them or using some idiotic law abusively.

You will only have to surrender your DNA if you are arrested, so don't get arrested.

It's that easy.



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05 Jun 2013, 12:49 am

*sigh*

Another lurch towards the police state, and folks are happy...


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xenon13
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05 Jun 2013, 5:05 am

Dox47 wrote:
*sigh*

Another lurch towards the police state, and folks are happy...


That's it exactly. Kind of makes one sick, doesn't it...



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05 Jun 2013, 5:48 am

xenon13 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
*sigh*

Another lurch towards the police state, and folks are happy...


That's it exactly. Kind of makes one sick, doesn't it...


Sick isn't the word I'd use exactly, more like depressingly unsurprised.

Even Scalia dissented on this one, f*cking Scalia thinks this is a search too far, and yet the rabble are confident they'll never find themselves on the wrong side of the cuffs. :roll:


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05 Jun 2013, 6:35 am

Dox, how is taking a DNA sample any more invasive than fingerprinting or taking mug shots and blood type?

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