Is my ebola plan to cold and calculating?

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androbot01
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17 Oct 2014, 1:01 pm

Can't we just start shooting plague victims like in the Walking Dead?

Just kidding

Magneto
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17 Oct 2014, 2:02 pm

Face, meet palm. Or palm meet face...

Pauusing the economy for a few months would not, in any way, cause stagnation. You can go back to your job when the crisis is over, and get back to mindless consumption. Unless we have to shoot you to stop you infecting thousands of people who don't deserve to die because you think you're a special snowflake who doesn't have to obey quarantine rules.

Is not having to stay in one place for a few months really worth destroying your future and ensuring that many of those you care about die?

I'm starting to think the bulk of humanity doesn't deserve to survive, simply because they not only don't make the effort to, but sabotage anyone who does.

Kraichgauer
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17 Oct 2014, 4:43 pm

Magneto wrote:

Actually, it would cause significant stagnation and death, as food production and distribution would suddenly cease, not to mention the lack of availability of any medical treatment. And that's not to mention how the sudden and complete stop of business and employment would cause such an economic burden that might make the Great Depression look like a bump in the road.

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Magneto
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17 Oct 2014, 5:36 pm

Do read posts before commenting on them, from now on, yeah?

The economic disruption caused would be far less than that wrought by having 50+% of your population dead.

Kraichgauer
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17 Oct 2014, 6:13 pm

Magneto wrote:

Do read posts before commenting on them, from now on, yeah?

The economic disruption caused would be far less than that wrought by having 50+% of your population dead.

I did read your post in it's entirety - I just don't agree with it.
And fifty percent of Americans would die? Unlikely, as we're an industrial society with all the most up to date medicines and medical technologies - something sadly lacking in Africa, which resides in third world level status. As deadly as Ebola is, it would never reap the death toll found in Africa.

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Magneto
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18 Oct 2014, 4:27 am

You wrote:

Actually, it would cause significant stagnation and death, as food production and distribution would suddenly cease, not to mention the lack of availability of any medical treatment.

I, before, wrote:

Temporarily place the essential parts - water treatment, farming, energy, health - under a command economy, and ration the food and energy; people can pick the food packages up at the local civic building, church, or school at their designated time, but we want to avoid a crowd.

Ebola isn't much of a threat. But a flu? That could kill a lot of people, and overwhelm the medical system. Your first world medical system won't help you when it's only capable of dealing with 1% of the population at a time, and 10% are infected.

But, I didn't realise the economy slumps into a depression every weekened, christmas or bank holiday. You must tell me more about this.

Kraichgauer
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18 Oct 2014, 5:24 am

Magneto wrote:

You wrote:

Actually, it would cause significant stagnation and death, as food production and distribution would suddenly cease, not to mention the lack of availability of any medical treatment.

I, before, wrote:

If people are told to stay home, who is going to work growing food, or package it for consumption? From what I understood your plan was, this would be going on for much longer than just Christmas break or a bank holiday. And where does medical treatment become available if a significant number of workers in the field are kept home to avoid Ebola?
And when did I ever say Ebola was no worse than the flu? I said people living in an industrial society like the US have medical care available that makes the survival rate much greater than in third world countries making up Africa. Yes, Ebola is a deadly disease, but I doubt that it would reap the same numbers here as it does in Africa. Remember, in Africa, people regularly die from diarrhea, while here, we just take a couple Imodium and go about our day.

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FracturedRocket
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18 Oct 2014, 6:33 pm

izzeme wrote:

it's not *that* infectious and dangerous... you make it seem like the black plague (which still exists in labs all over the world).
my method is worse: let it spread a bit, remove the weaker genes from the population, there's too many humans on earth anyway, we could do with a bit less

You're kidding, right? Who are you planning to off first?

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Kraichgauer
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18 Oct 2014, 7:10 pm

FracturedRocket wrote:

izzeme wrote:

You're kidding, right? Who are you planning to off first?

And how many of us Aspies would be left?

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shlaifu
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18 Oct 2014, 8:28 pm

so, a little comment from me about the concept of shooting potentially infected people and how 'unthinkable' that idea is:

I live within the 30 mile perimeter of a nuclear power plant, and there are of course evacuation plans for the area surrounding power plants in case of a meltdown- which no one ever reads.
Until someone, like me, one day, does.
So.... in case of nuclear catastrophe, the military is to fence off the 30 mile radius around the powerplant.
-So no one can get out!
People fleeing will have to be considered contaminated and possibly dangerous sources of radiation.
People trying to breech the fences are to be shot.
Of course if one stays within the perimeter and does not get shot, one will receive decontamination and treatment at a certain point, if one doesn't die from the radiation until the situation has cleared up enough for medical personnel to move in.

so... there are plans for catastrophes that do involve shooting people. And I'm really happy Germany, the country I live in, is planning to shut down its nuclear power plants.

and about the weeding out the weaker genes: well, you'd not get rid of the *weaker* genes, but only the ones non-resistent to ebola.
that's why sickle-cell anaemia is so prevalent in sub-sharan africa- if you only carry the trait, you're immune to malaria. your children however might get sickle-cell anemia, and are not immune to malaria. In areas without malaria, or after it is gone, it's only disadvantageous to have those genes.
I wouldn't describe those people's genes as *stronger*.
Your idea therefore is not only inhumane, but also just not wise.

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Protogenoi
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18 Oct 2014, 10:02 pm

Jacoby wrote:

izzeme wrote:

Bubonic plague can actually be found animal vectors in the US, it just isn't as big of deal with modern sanitation(we don't have rats in our homes) and antibiotics. 25% of the population is never going to get it, it is simply too deadly of a disease to do that. It kills people quicker than they can infect other people, with proper sanitation and hygiene practices it would be pretty limited in scope. Compared to bubonic plague which was spread by I believe flea bites and anybody that has ever had fleas in their home know its probably a lot easier to avoid coming in direct contact with infected people's bodily fluids than it is avoiding flea bites.

Except new Archeological evidence done on a mass grave of black plague victims shows that the black plague wasn't bubonic plague, but pneumonic plague. They now have evidence of human to human infection through the air, however, apparently that can't be the only vector. Additionally, it was proven back in 87, that bubonic plague couldn't spread through Europe because climate and ecology would prevent the survivability of the carrier species.

We also ebola in our labs. We also have small pox, and probably some worse things. In the 80's ebola leaked in a laboratory in Virgina, infecting and killing a lot of monkeys. Recently, a cardboard box in a laboratory almost discarded in the trash, but it unknowingly there were vials of smallpox in it (violation of international treaties, which only allow it to be held at two facilities worldwide.) If they had thrown it away, we would probably have an epidemic that would make Ebola look like the common cold.
There are a lot of disease risks here in America that dwarf Ebola. All have been successfully contained in facilities, although there have been some very close calls. Ebola will also be successfully taken care of.

You are right about bubonic plague not being virulent thanks to modern sanitation. Even if you manage to get it, your general health is probably better than the people inflicted centuries ago, so you should easily survive it even without healthcare, but you might want to get the care anyway.

Protogenoi
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18 Oct 2014, 10:07 pm

Besides, shooting ebola carriers would greatly increase the chance of spreading the infection.
In Spain, they did euthanize someone's dog who they though might possibly have Ebola.
There is a relatively high chance of surviving Ebola in a first world country. So, there isn't any reason to get rid of people with the disease. We have also found a few new treatment plans that increase odds of survival drastically. For example, if you are infected with Ebola and get a blood transfusion from someone who already recovered, you can get antibodies already equipped (this method is similar to some older vaccination methods.)

Kraichgauer
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18 Oct 2014, 11:11 pm

shlaifu wrote:

Not to get off subject, but in which part of Germany do you reside?

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shlaifu
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19 Oct 2014, 5:50 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Not to get off subject, but in which part of Germany do you reside?

south-east, bavaria, greater munich area.

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Kraichgauer
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19 Oct 2014, 10:57 am

shlaifu wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Not to get off subject, but in which part of Germany do you reside?

south-east, bavaria, greater munich area.

Thank you. My dad's people back in the 19th century came out of the Franconian dialect area of northwestern Wurttemberg, while my mom's people way back when were Prussians and Bavarians.

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Sweetleaf
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19 Oct 2014, 12:43 pm

Magneto wrote:

What you suggest would essentially be treating everyone as though they are infected...of course if someone actually has the disease and is contagious they should be quarantined for treatment. But trying to force everyone to stay at home, not go anywhere and essentially live under martial law for even a few months seems kind of pointless....and what is to say this 'martial law' would end once the threat has been eliminated so to speak? People who are not infected with this aren't going to go for being 'quarantined' and that is understandable in my opinion.

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