Here Comes World War Three

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I wonder if NATO would go to war with russia over the baltic countries, I know they have to but part of me doubt they would...
I mean great help the Budapest memorandum was for Ukraine
I'm just hoping Russia is not going to invade us since we are not in the NATO...baah for crazy people in power

This only means that you don't really understand anything about NATO. It's not an issue of what the average person in the street in a NATO country would do, It's about interconnected command and control, standardized equipment and tactics, joint operations, basing and training. If Russia were to attack one of the Baltic states, they would be engaging forces from other NATO countries and those countries would respond according to the training they do regularly.

Units from other NATO countries regularly rotate into temporary assignment in the Baltics and Poland precisely to ensure that any Russian aggression would immediately involve the whole alliance. The response would follow doctrine and war plans that have been in place for many years. The response would be proportional to the offense, but it would be intense.

The memorandum was not in any way equivalent to NATO membership.

If Putin really wanted to show that he was mad, bad and dangerous to know without endangering everything he might just do something like invade a major western Non-NATO country.

You forget something and that is that several NATO countries are also part of Europe and the EU, and lay very close to Russia. Maybe the US and other countries further from the immediate zone would go to war, because the war would not be on their soil. But I doubt that the NATO countries from Europe would be so quick to go to war with Russia over the Baltic countries. You obviously have no understanding of the political climate and problems facing Europe. Europe is highly divided and there is very much A and B and “worth a lot less” countries. Nationalistic right winged parties are on the rise in many countries, it is not pleasant. So I think NATO as such will be divided if Russia were to attack the smaller less important countries, but most likely not if Russia went for the bigger more powerful ones.

Just the other day, it came to me that we're about to see the end sequence of "Doctor Strangelove" in real life.

It really doesn't matter what the political considerations of the average person in Europe are once an article 5 situation blows up. It barely even matters what the political leaders in the alliance think. By the time they get the news, planned responses would already be in progress, these would involve lots of US units, but plenty of others from all NATO members. There are shared resources like AWACS and Tanker flights in constant use.

It really wouldn't happen that these forces suddenly stop working the way they train and they train to fight together against a common foe.

Europe may be as narrow minded, selfish, tribal, racist and warmongering as it ever was, but its armies will respond as trained, just as they did after the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Once the trains are rolling (or the Tomahawks flying) it's very hard to suddenly throw on the brakes.

The good thing is that Putin knows this and won't risk losing everything. He'll beat the hell out of non-NATO countries, but he won't touch NATO because he knows how it works.

http://www.eucom.mil/media-library/arti ... -eucom-aor

Why am I not entitled to my thoughts? It feels like you are trying very hard to belittle me.
I hope that Russia will be stopped if they try going further, but from what I see and read I have doubts. Because I have doubts in humanity, I think that problems cannot be seen on only one level, I mean just because they are rules and countries are obliged to follow them, it doesn't mean that they are set in stones, and if Russia will go further that will be a real test for NATO.


Because The US has no problems? At least I'm aware of the problems that we are facing.



The assassination was the excuse they needed to go to war, the war would have happened anyways without it, just might have taken a bit longer time. They wanted the war, so that they could expand their territory.

And what happened before WWII started? Europe stood by quietly accepting Hitler's annexing and occupying more and more. What Putin is busy doing now is not so different.



I hope you are correct. I really do.

I am sorry for that--I wanted to express strongly my understanding that the training and pre-existing plans NATO countries operate under make the kind of "let's not respond if Russia invades an eastern NATO country" option really unrealistic--but not to belittle you at all. That isn't in any way to say you are not entitled to your thoughts or somehow lesser as a human being.

At no point have I claimed that the US is less narrow minded, selfish, tribal, racist or warmongering than Europe. Recognizing what a mess Europe is doesn't somehow make anyplace else better. The problem is human beings.

I am sorry that these comments seemed directed at you personally or made you feel bad. I was really thinking about NATO training and the reality that armies fight as they train. Regional prejudice is irrelevant when you are looking at the kind of logistical procedures these organizations work with.

Thank you for explaining, I can see your point, I just felt a bit like I was under attack for thinking differently I understand now that that was not your intention.



I agree, and that is how I tend to look at problems, both to gain a better understanding of the bigger and smaller picture. No matter how many rules are set and look good on paper, it still remains for humans to carry them out, and humans are faulty.
You have a different way of thinking than me, but I thank you for explaining.

No country can join NATO if they are involved in a Civil War, or if there is a Frozen Conflict.

Moldova, and The Soviet of Transnitsia, Georgia with several breakaway provinces, and now Ukraine with Donbass and Crimea.

They also have to have an economy that can support buying NATO Standard weapons. Expanding NATO is about expanding arms sales.

Besides having to spend 3% of GDP on NATO, they also have to join the Sanctions War, and the EU lost many billions in counter sanctions, food products, as did Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine.

The South Stream Pipeline was going to bring gas transit fees and jobs to Eastern Europe.

Showing a United Europe gave that to Greeks, Serbia, and others that feel mistreated by the EU.

The French have to pay back the money given for two ships.

This comes on top of all those worthless AAA Mortgage Backed Securities the US sold Europe.

Russia is just an excuse for an economic war on Europe, to maintain the American Occupation.

Put then in debt, then make them poor, then foreclose, and take all the real assets. The Bankster Game.

Nonsense. The world and the human race have been through much worce.

About 75,000 years ago Super Volcano Mt. Toba exploded that the human population has reduced to about 5000 breeding pairs. Which explains the lack of genetic diversity in the human species compared to other mammalian species. Humanity came within a whisker of being extinguished.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

ruveyn

Invade the Baltic Countries? You must be talking to John McCain.

Russia was not driven out of Eastern Europe, it was a money losing deal and they dumped them.

Even after they joined the EU, NATO, Russia was still buying their produce, dairy, meat, and selling them gas, oil, atomic power. Ukraine had a lot of Russian Military contracts. Russia bought their Bonds, advanced credit, Ukraine is five billion behind in paying for gas. Two billion in Russian owned Euro Bonds are coming due.

Since 1991 Russia has given $30 Billion to support Ukraine, and Ukraine has run through three or four governments.

None of the Eastern European countries are solvent, much less an economic miracle.

They have maxed out the Euro Credit Card, but still have the lowest incomes around.

Russian per capita income has tripled. When Crimea joined they reported paychecks and pensions more than doubled.

A European Ukraine, cut pensions, tripled gas prices, cut off heat, by order of the IMF, and the money is quickly on the way to worthless.

The only way to start WWIII, is to invade Russia.

The Russian economy is currently in decline, and living standards are falling, according to reports.

Putin is Autistic, according to reports.

...according to the Russian Economy Ministry.