Treating Autism with Faeces. Does it get any worse?

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ASPartOfMe
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15 Jul 2015, 10:13 pm

NewTime wrote:
Ugh. This is a joke, isn't it?


No.
The Guardian is not some unsourced internet blog but a pretty respected British newspaper.


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cyberdad
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16 Jul 2015, 1:53 am

The thinking behind this treatment is understandable if a little uncomfortable.

There's a number of "funded" projects around the world looking at the link between gut bacteria and neurological changes in the brain. There is a theory that children genetically predisposed to autism who take antibiotics as babies lose a lot of their normal flora which is disproportionately replaced by antibiotic resistance bugs in their gut. These new bacteria produce chemicals which interfere with brain function during crucial developmental stages resulting in autistic brain function (so the theory goes).

Therefore the stool treatment envisages that stool from a "healthy" person without autism contains normal flora which when consumed will reinoculate the gut replacing the bad bacteria and reducing the production of these brain altering chemicals.



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16 Jul 2015, 9:28 am

cyberdad wrote:
The thinking behind this treatment is understandable if a little uncomfortable.

There's a number of "funded" projects around the world looking at the link between gut bacteria and neurological changes in the brain. There is a theory that children genetically predisposed to autism who take antibiotics as babies lose a lot of their normal flora which is disproportionately replaced by antibiotic resistance bugs in their gut. These new bacteria produce chemicals which interfere with brain function during crucial developmental stages resulting in autistic brain function (so the theory goes).

Therefore the stool treatment envisages that stool from a "healthy" person without autism contains normal flora which when consumed will reinoculate the gut replacing the bad bacteria and reducing the production of these brain altering chemicals.


Yes. I think it is the fecal part which is triggering disgust (understandably). This isn't something to be done at home (just as no parent should ever undertake to give their kid a tonsilectomy at home). It is going out on a limb to apply it to autism. But it is a limb that warrants research. It's not ridiculous.

It's already succesfully in use to treat C. diificile infection and is being trialed for other intestinal dysfunction. The autism angle is not yet being considered in hospitals but may eventually be if ongoing research justifies trialing it and probably also if it turns out to help gut conditions beyond C. difficile infection.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3742951/

Quote:
Fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT) has attracted great interest in recent years, largely due to the global Clostridium difficile infection (CDI) epidemic and major advances in metagenomic sequencing of the gastrointestinal (GI) microbiota, with growing understanding of its structure and function. FMT is now recommended as the most effective therapy for relapsing CDI and, with further refinement, may even be used in “first-time” CDI. There is interest also in other conditions related to GI dysbiosis—for example, inflammatory bowel disease, irritable bowel syndrome, obesity, and diabetes mellitus—although quality evidence is at present lacking. A few trials are now underway in FMT for ulcerative colitis. Many unanswered questions remain, including FMT methodology—for example, optimal route of administration, what makes a “good donor,” safety issues, and long-term effects of FMT.


None of that is about autism. I posted it to show that fecal transplant is not equivalent to 'bleach therapy' or any of the other dangerous practices quacks promote. This is legit although not (yet?) applied to autism in hospitals.



NewTime
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16 Jul 2015, 1:34 pm

Why are people in so much panic about autism? You don't seem to see nearly as much panic going on about Down Syndrome. Yet autism gets all this panic.



ASPartOfMe
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16 Jul 2015, 3:26 pm

NewTime wrote:
Why are people in so much panic about autism? You don't seem to see nearly as much panic going on about Down Syndrome. Yet autism gets all this panic.


Since the genes for Down's Syndrome are known Down's syndrome fetuses are often aborted. The Down's Syndrome children mostly were wanted by the parents that conceived them.

Call it "occam's razor", call it "keep it simple stupid" people have become almost religious with this type of ways of looking at issues. Autism "prevalence" rates skyrocketing, it must be an epidemic because that is the simplest explanation. Autism is complicated, that in itself makes it feared and unwanted.


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NewTime
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16 Jul 2015, 6:29 pm

Autism is being diagnosed more. It's not becoming more common. It's just we have less autistic people that are not diagnosed than we used to.



slave
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17 Jul 2015, 4:43 pm

EdgySpirit wrote:
Austalian Mum Treats Autism with Faeces
I'm avoiding the obvious gags but she sounds serious about it.


What the ever living f**k!?!?!?!?!



ASS-P
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17 Jul 2015, 4:47 pm

...Ay yi yi !



shlaifu
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17 Jul 2015, 5:46 pm

"faecal transplants" are actually a promising potential treatment for all sorts of things, from the obvious inflammatory bowel diseases to morbid obesity, diabetes, high triglycerides and so on. But the gut-host connection has been sort of ignored entirely until only ten years ago, so now people are trying to see what happens on every disease of unclear etiology.

and, there are some unexplained anecdotal cases, in which faecal transplantation cured things like MS.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/263526-poop-magic-gut-cure/

though autism-associated enteritis has been gotten rid of as an exclusive category, there still is an elevated incidence of gut issues in ASD population.

However, ONE autistic child treated with faecal transplant, and subsequent improved condition just proves nothing.
From a medical standpoint, we can't tell what would have happend, if the kid had not been treated like this.

However, DO NOT RIDICULE faecal transplants, they are still promising for a handfull of crippling chronic conditions, yet unlikely for some others. Like autism.
I'd rather eat s**t once than have, say, Crohn's disease for the rest of my life.


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17 Jul 2015, 6:02 pm

^^^
Well, you wouldn't exactly be eating it - - rather, it would be sent into your digestive tract by means of a tube introuduced through the mouth, and down the esophagus and stomach.


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18 Jul 2015, 1:46 am

^^^ I understand that. I used this wording for the purpose of hyperbole.


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18 Jul 2015, 1:53 am

shlaifu wrote:
^^^ I understand that. I used this wording for the purpose of hyperbole.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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18 Jul 2015, 4:25 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Well, you wouldn't exactly be eating it - - rather, it would be sent into your digestive tract by means of a tube introuduced through the mouth, and down the esophagus and stomach.

Probally more likely down the nose or up the butt, rather than taking P.O. through the mouth (control issue). I was made a "guinea pig" for medical research at Fitzsimmons Army Medical Centre when I was a child (1970-1978), and repeated the tubes in both body cavities when I had my gall bladder out in '98. Hopefully none of it involved taking feces internally.


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goofygoobers
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18 Jul 2015, 4:59 am

I don't quite understand why people think autism is caused by gut issues. Is it based on some sort of research?



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18 Jul 2015, 10:15 am

It shows the astonishing ability of the human mind to bend its perception of reality to suit what it wants to believe.

shlaifu wrote:
"faecal transplants" are actually a promising potential treatment for all sorts of things, from the obvious inflammatory bowel diseases to morbid obesity, diabetes, high triglycerides and so on.


I'm sure you can treat obesity by transplanting a tapeworm.


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18 Jul 2015, 10:50 am

People come up with strange ideas to treat autism.


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