kindergartener handcuffed, arrested, charged with felony

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Lightning88
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01 Apr 2007, 12:27 pm

Back in freshman year, I saw police handcuffing a nine-year-old at my high school (they had a little police headquarters there since the school wasn't safe). That kid looked so mad! My friends and I simply stared at the whole situation and then broke into a round of gossip. lol



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01 Apr 2007, 8:41 pm

I can see that I'm going to be putting a very unpopular statement here.

I don't think it's that awful. Yes, I think that cuffing her and charging her with three separate counts is too harsh. However, I believe that calling the police was acceptable. Had the child been bruised while the teachers were attempting to restrain her, the mother could have turned around and said, "They abused my child!" and they may have lost their jobs. Teachers can get in a heck of a lot of trouble just for touching kid, much less harming them. Furthermore, I've seen some little kids get pretty violent. Just because they're small doesn't mean that they can't hurt someone. And (unless I missed it) there was no indication in the article that she had AS or any other disorder that would have caused her to meltdown or otherwise act like that.

If she has been a problem in the past - and I'm discounting her mother's statements because parents are typically blind to the truth, and she'd hardly tell the press that her kid is a living terror (whether or not she is) - then there needs to be some punishment. If she isn't scared somehow - and I don't mean, let's chuck her in prision and charge her with crimes! I mean some type of punishment a little kid will get (take away their candy for a month...or something. I have no children and thus don't pay attention to suitable punishments) - then she may continue to become violent, increasing to a point in which she becomes an actual threat.

That being said, I don't think that they should have done more than escort her out of the school.


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BazzaMcKenzie
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01 Apr 2007, 11:48 pm

6 y.o. :?

I thought the US legal system was not so different from ours and had the principle of mens rea which is the basis of a (temporary) insanity defence or the "only joking" defence.

I believe a kid in Australia has to be at least 9 y.o. before they get into the legal system. Less than 9 y.o. its generally regarded that kids are not mature enough for the courts to assume that they are sufficiently aware of criminal behaviour for them to be charged with a criminal offence.

wikipedia wrote:
The mens rea is the Latin term for "guilty mind" used in the criminal law. The standard common law test of criminal liability is usually expressed in the Latin phrase, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means that "the act does not make a person guilty unless the mind is also guilty"


I hope the authorities get sued big time. It will make them think about different procedures.


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02 Apr 2007, 2:43 am

Well Bazza that used to be the case. But there's been several incidents recently in the US where undue force has been applied to autistic children to the point they have been killed. Some have been Tasered. Considering autistic children are CHILDREN, have a smaller body and being autistic they may have multiple health problems so you would think Police would not want to Taser kids because there might be more chance of harming their heart. The US in someways is becoming a police state where everyone's behavior is suppose to be controlled.

Here's a bad for instance. Several drs have tried to put me on antidepressants after they found out where I work because they think its a stressful place to work and that everyone there must be maniac depressive which I am not. That same thought pattern is getting applied to children where they think if a child is autistic they are dangerous and must be drugged and physically restrained. No other disability gets treated the same way. Actually I think this media attention to autism is causing negative results where more people will get harmed because for instance teachers now think autistics are always bad kids and they don't want anything to do with them. One 5 yr old in our town was told by his teacher to GET OUT of the classroom and the teacher tells him he is a bad person. This is what is being done to the little American Aspies.



KBABZ
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02 Apr 2007, 3:02 am

(in response to Ticker's post) Does WP have enough money to launch a Spectrumite Awareness Campaign?


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02 Apr 2007, 5:40 am

Why weren't the parents called before the police? That's what happens where I live. In high school the cops get called then.

And thank god I live down under. They don't taser kids here............yet.

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Remnant
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02 Apr 2007, 6:26 am

Ticker wrote:
Well Bazza that used to be the case. But there's been several incidents recently in the US where undue force has been applied to autistic children to the point they have been killed. Some have been Tasered. Considering autistic children are CHILDREN, have a smaller body and being autistic they may have multiple health problems so you would think Police would not want to Taser kids because there might be more chance of harming their heart. The US in someways is becoming a police state where everyone's behavior is suppose to be controlled.

Here's a bad for instance. Several drs have tried to put me on antidepressants after they found out where I work because they think its a stressful place to work and that everyone there must be maniac depressive which I am not. That same thought pattern is getting applied to children where they think if a child is autistic they are dangerous and must be drugged and physically restrained. No other disability gets treated the same way. Actually I think this media attention to autism is causing negative results where more people will get harmed because for instance teachers now think autistics are always bad kids and they don't want anything to do with them. One 5 yr old in our town was told by his teacher to GET OUT of the classroom and the teacher tells him he is a bad person. This is what is being done to the little American Aspies.


It is really easy to deliberately get a child so agitated that he cannot "respond" the way that he is "supposed to." School principals have told me that it didn't even matter who provoked me or what they did to me, that I was done for because of what I allegedly did. What I did was disrupt class by screaming when someone poked at me.



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02 Apr 2007, 2:16 pm

But unless this article fails to mention it (and I doubt they would, as disorders and the like could easily make it more sensational), the little girl in question has no disorders/syndromes/ect. Aspies may overload and be unable to control themselves (which is where most of us get out experince in these matters), but if she is truly a normal child, she should be able to control herself to a certain extent.


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geek
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02 Apr 2007, 2:46 pm

LadyCass wrote:
But unless this article fails to mention it...


At age 6, I'd wager that no more than a quarter of aspies have been diagnosed.



ahayes
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02 Apr 2007, 3:31 pm

The cop should have the option of either being put in jail for the time the child is in custody, or have their name and address posted in national newspapers along with description of what he did.



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02 Apr 2007, 4:20 pm

LadyCass wrote:
But unless this article fails to mention it (and I doubt they would, as disorders and the like could easily make it more sensational), the little girl in question has no disorders/syndromes/ect. Aspies may overload and be unable to control themselves (which is where most of us get out experince in these matters), but if she is truly a normal child, she should be able to control herself to a certain extent.


Don't you think that a normal six year old child can overload and become unable to handle herself, and that ASD people can handle themselves to some extent? I never melted down when I was that age unless someone hammered at me until I did.



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02 Apr 2007, 4:36 pm

Remnant wrote:
LadyCass wrote:
But unless this article fails to mention it (and I doubt they would, as disorders and the like could easily make it more sensational), the little girl in question has no disorders/syndromes/ect. Aspies may overload and be unable to control themselves (which is where most of us get out experince in these matters), but if she is truly a normal child, she should be able to control herself to a certain extent.


Don't you think that a normal six year old child can overload and become unable to handle herself, and that ASD people can handle themselves to some extent? I never melted down when I was that age unless someone hammered at me until I did.


I'm not saying that it's impossible that she was overloaded (and I understand that aspies can usually control themselves to a certain amount. I was responding to the numerous replies that cite similar meltdowns, and I used the worst case scenario). However, I'm saying that I think it's quite possible that she was simply throwing a temper tantrum. Having been choked as a child by a fellow five year old student (who, by the way, had no mental issues, nor was I provoking him - heck, I wasn't even near him at first), I can tell you firsthand that there are some violent children who will hurt you simply to prove their point or release frustration. I think that without background information, it's impossible to make a fair judgement on the case.


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02 Apr 2007, 8:13 pm

This story and also the Teen who was tasered are depressing, society needs more education, to many ignorance exist in this world.



Roxas_XIII
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02 Apr 2007, 8:58 pm

greenblue wrote:
This story and also the Teen who was tasered are depressing, society needs more education, to many ignorance exist in this world.


either education or a good ass-kicking is fine with me.


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02 Apr 2007, 9:05 pm

LadyCass wrote:

I'm not saying that it's impossible that she was overloaded (and I understand that aspies can usually control themselves to a certain amount. I was responding to the numerous replies that cite similar meltdowns, and I used the worst case scenario). However, I'm saying that I think it's quite possible that she was simply throwing a temper tantrum. Having been choked as a child by a fellow five year old student (who, by the way, had no mental issues, nor was I provoking him - heck, I wasn't even near him at first), I can tell you firsthand that there are some violent children who will hurt you simply to prove their point or release frustration. I think that without background information, it's impossible to make a fair judgement on the case.


In the absence of good evidence I find in favor of the defense. Adults often have a really hard time knowing when a child has been pushed past reasonable tolerances for a healthy child. I was often characterized as having an explosive temper even though I tolerated a lot of things that few people would have, and when teachers confronted me with their stuff about something being wrong with what I did, they didn't usually try to reason, they tried to provoke an emotional meltdown. I'm trying my personal experience written on to this girl's to see if there is a fit.

It's easy to characterize an all too controlled person as lacking control if the person doing the characterization has certain personality disorders, like being uptight, bigoted, and not a very nice person. It's even easier when the person doing the evaluation fails, deliberately or foolishly, to take the provocation into account. Personally I had screaming fits because I was trapped into situations then beaten by a child or punished for reacting in fear of another beating. No one from that god awful time has a clue what I was really like without the tampering.



nirrti_rachelle
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02 Apr 2007, 10:21 pm

You mean to tell me those big adults couldn't handle a little six year-old girl? The adults need to be fired for lack of competence if they have to call the police on a Kindergartener.

My god, whatever happened to common sense? Has TV watching and religion really sucked the intelligence out of people's brains that much? Oh well. What more can I expect from the same people who elected Bush? :(


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