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slave
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05 Aug 2015, 3:38 pm

AntDog wrote:
Sell it back to Spain.
Keep Arecibo and the military base as enclaves like we did with Guantanamo in Cuba.
Let the veterans and their immediate families be able to move here in the next 10 years and after that treat them like any other country.
Puerto Rico is like the democrats dream of a future, just like Detroit.
My parents have went there a few times and they said it's almost like Jamaica, full of crime and slums with great scenery in the less populated areas.


Espana is in no financial position to buy P.R., they are barely in better condition than Greece.



whatamess
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16 Sep 2015, 2:43 am

Interesting thoughts...especially since I am from Puerto Rico and currently live on the island.

Some things people don't really know.

1. yes, SOME Puerto Ricans do pay federal income taxes while living on the island, but NOT most
2. it's probably 50/50 those who want statehood and those who don't
3. crime is out of hand, however, the majority of crime is in the projects or directly related to drugs, not crazy man shooting at a mall or movie theater
4. welfare+minimum wage has actually DESTROYED our island...it is better to live off welfare than to work for minimum wage on the island, thus way too many live off welfare (NO, I am NOT one of them, never have been ;-) )
5. because we are part of the US, we have many of the same amenities as the US, such as cable TV (for at least the last 30+ years), Macy's, McDonalds, etc...while this is good for SOME Puerto Ricans, the majority make PEANUTS in comparison to US wages, but are bombarded with ads and feel they DESERVE these things...even at the expense of others
6. although we claim to be a capitalist commonwealth, the fact is that being a Latin country and one where RELIGION pays a HUGE role in politics, most there also believe in socialism...thus there are WAY TOO MANY freebies being given away, but paid by a MINORITY of people, i.e. remember 4, where I stated you were better off living off welfare than working at minimum wage
7. corruption in politics is outrageous...but then again, all politicians promise what the MAJORITY want because they want to be elected or re-elected...when the MAJORITY feel entitled, because of welfare, THEY vote for those who give away even more stuff...

I have lived in both the US (Texas) and Puerto Rico. Each one has good and bad. Nobody in Puerto Rico loses their home or their life savings because of medical care...the problem is, that there is a minority, i.e. literally about 4% of the population paying income taxes while 94% pay NOTHING or VERY LITTLE...

Our issues are huge. I do NOT want the US to bail us out. I believe the current governor had great ideas to make things better, to get us on track and the majority on the island refused it and thus, politicians voted against it. Most people work under the table, therefore, the governor wanted to get rid of our income tax and put an IVA tax of 16%. When the MAJORITY is used to not paying a DIME in income tax, they will scream. I love my island, there are some great places and there are some very good people, just like anywhere else, but I want my island at this point to hit rock bottom, no bailouts, so that the government has no choice but to fix the issues.

PS it doesn't help that we have almost 1/3 of the workers on the island as PUBLIC workers...ridiculous

Ah, and last...as for the comment on slums, they are all over...you know why? Because the US wanted to be nice and built PUBLIC HOUSING all over the island. The island USED TO have nice neighborhoods and the poor people lived in the country or worked their way up to live in the city. The US government began giving money to build projects NEXT TO nice neighborhoods...so you can have a million dollar mansion and the government builds projects next door to your mansion...that NEVER or hardly EVER happened in the US...you can't put people who don't have a pot to p#$ss on to live next to millionaires and not expect resentment, crime and more...



Humanaut
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16 Sep 2015, 3:29 am

Sounds like Greece.



slave
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16 Sep 2015, 9:02 pm

whatamess wrote:
Interesting thoughts...especially since I am from Puerto Rico and currently live on the island.

Some things people don't really know.

1. yes, SOME Puerto Ricans do pay federal income taxes while living on the island, but NOT most
2. it's probably 50/50 those who want statehood and those who don't
3. crime is out of hand, however, the majority of crime is in the projects or directly related to drugs, not crazy man shooting at a mall or movie theater
4. welfare+minimum wage has actually DESTROYED our island...it is better to live off welfare than to work for minimum wage on the island, thus way too many live off welfare (NO, I am NOT one of them, never have been ;-) )
5. because we are part of the US, we have many of the same amenities as the US, such as cable TV (for at least the last 30+ years), Macy's, McDonalds, etc...while this is good for SOME Puerto Ricans, the majority make PEANUTS in comparison to US wages, but are bombarded with ads and feel they DESERVE these things...even at the expense of others
6. although we claim to be a capitalist commonwealth, the fact is that being a Latin country and one where RELIGION pays a HUGE role in politics, most there also believe in socialism...thus there are WAY TOO MANY freebies being given away, but paid by a MINORITY of people, i.e. remember 4, where I stated you were better off living off welfare than working at minimum wage
7. corruption in politics is outrageous...but then again, all politicians promise what the MAJORITY want because they want to be elected or re-elected...when the MAJORITY feel entitled, because of welfare, THEY vote for those who give away even more stuff...

I have lived in both the US (Texas) and Puerto Rico. Each one has good and bad. Nobody in Puerto Rico loses their home or their life savings because of medical care...the problem is, that there is a minority, i.e. literally about 4% of the population paying income taxes while 94% pay NOTHING or VERY LITTLE...

Our issues are huge. I do NOT want the US to bail us out. I believe the current governor had great ideas to make things better, to get us on track and the majority on the island refused it and thus, politicians voted against it. Most people work under the table, therefore, the governor wanted to get rid of our income tax and put an IVA tax of 16%. When the MAJORITY is used to not paying a DIME in income tax, they will scream. I love my island, there are some great places and there are some very good people, just like anywhere else, but I want my island at this point to hit rock bottom, no bailouts, so that the government has no choice but to fix the issues.

PS it doesn't help that we have almost 1/3 of the workers on the island as PUBLIC workers...ridiculous

Ah, and last...as for the comment on slums, they are all over...you know why? Because the US wanted to be nice and built PUBLIC HOUSING all over the island. The island USED TO have nice neighborhoods and the poor people lived in the country or worked their way up to live in the city. The US government began giving money to build projects NEXT TO nice neighborhoods...so you can have a million dollar mansion and the government builds projects next door to your mansion...that NEVER or hardly EVER happened in the US...you can't put people who don't have a pot to p#$ss on to live next to millionaires and not expect resentment, crime and more...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for an insiders perspective on the complex problems which face your nation.
None of us outsiders can know PR from the headlines, especially if we've never even lived there.

I'm amazed at the obvious foolishness of incentivizing welfare over minimum wage. Easy to understand why some would take the path of least resistance, instead of putting out more effort for less $$$$. If one wishes to deliberately foster dependency this is certainly the tact to take.

All in all, whatever one think of the motives of those who control PR, it is the masses that suffer while the few enrich themselves.

Regarding your wish for PR to hit rock bottom to force REAL change, I can understand your point and I frankly agree....HOWEVER, I hold up Haiti as a terrifying example of a country that hit rock bottom and STAYED THERE in perpetuity. Never underestimate the psychopathology of power. Those who control Haiti will never give one f**k about the suffering of their people...EVER. Haiti will remain an utterly failed state. Just like Liberia, Sierra Leone, etc....perpetually fvcked. :(

I wish you and your beautiful country a positive future, I really do. :)



Alien_Papa
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19 Sep 2015, 1:08 am

Default and statehood are separate issues. The US federal government does not guarantee state debts. Puerto Rico can default. States can default. California came close a few years ago. Seems inevitable in Illinois.



slave
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19 Sep 2015, 12:54 pm

Alien_Papa wrote:
Default and statehood are separate issues. The US federal government does not guarantee state debts. Puerto Rico can default. States can default. California came close a few years ago. Seems inevitable in Illinois.


I agree regarding Illinois...Chicago is the next Detroit, though some of its underlying issues are quite different. There are many states and cities in America with VERY serious financial problems and sadly their debt levels and deficits are increasing every year(while infrastructure crumbles). As an example, there are ~2400 bridges in California that are structurally deficient acc. to the Engineers.