"Unelectable" Jeremy Corbyn wins, again.

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Biscuitman
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28 Sep 2016, 7:47 am

JohnPowell wrote:
the majority of Labour voters want Corbyn in


At the 2010 general election there were 8.2M Labour voters and at the 2015 general election there were 9.3M Labour voters.

Corbyn just got 313,000 votes.



JohnPowell
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29 Sep 2016, 5:27 pm

Gwydion wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Corbyn will stand by what he believes, he's anti-war and has the balls to stick to that.


Rubbish. All it takes is a wink from a jihadi, and any apparent principles Jeremy holds regarding feminism, LGBT rights , anti-Semitism, and anti-war sentiment go flying out of the window.

No 'man of peace', would have the disgusting John McDonnell as his number two.

JohnPowell wrote:
Even though the majority of Labour voters want Corbyn in.


You mean the tiny few that remain?

Labour have left their traditional support base far behind. They stopped supporting the interests of working class people and started calling them bigots and telling them what to think. The further left the party is taken, the further it will be from power, because they represent NOBODY in the real world these days.


What Jihadis? He's against war and always will be. What are you talking about? How many people has McDonnell killed? Why's he disgusting?

What evidence do you have that it's a "tiny few" or is going to be? They left their support base in the 90's. At least actually believes in what he does. Blair and co carried out mass immigration and multiculturalism to "rub the right's nose in diversity and render their argument's out of date". There's no such thing as right and left, well they're just creations to divide people. Corbyn and co should wake up and realise that mass immigration has been used to divide the Labor movement and the working class. Can't have people working together against our corrupted rulers.


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JohnPowell
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29 Sep 2016, 5:33 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
the majority of Labour voters want Corbyn in


At the 2010 general election there were 8.2M Labour voters and at the 2015 general election there were 9.3M Labour voters.

Corbyn just got 313,000 votes.


:roll: You realise that those 9.3 million weren't all Labour party members? Labour membership has nearly doubled in a year or so. Most of them joined because of Corbyn. Lots more tried and some were put off by the rise in the price to join but Corbyn still won in a landslide again.


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BitterCoffee
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29 Sep 2016, 7:23 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
The brand of socialism promoted by Corbyn and Smith is a failure. They want to renationalise services which have improved since being privatised. They want to take universities back to the dark days of the 1980s. No thanks.


Privatised rail has meant higher fares, and cost to taxpayer
concluding that the [privitization] of rail had brought little private sector investment
Privatized rail has resulted in billions more in taxpayer subsidies.

http://www.cresc.ac.uk/search/?q=rail&s ... ient=CRESC
http://www.cresc.ac.uk/search/?q=rail&s ... ient=CRESC

The_Walrus wrote:
Corbyn has been in a terrible electoral position since he won the first leadership election. He's doing worse than Miliband, who lost, despite the government being much weaker.

Corbyn was doing fine (he cut the Conservatives lead in half in 1 year) until the MP decided to mount an unsuccessful coup.



Biscuitman
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29 Sep 2016, 11:49 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
the majority of Labour voters want Corbyn in


At the 2010 general election there were 8.2M Labour voters and at the 2015 general election there were 9.3M Labour voters.

Corbyn just got 313,000 votes.


You realise that those 9.3 million weren't all Labour party members?


Yes, that's what I thought you didn't understand as above you called them 'Labour voters' which was wrong. In terms of the number of Labour party members who vote in a GE, the numbers are so small they are actually only a fraction of a percentage.



Gwydion
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30 Sep 2016, 5:53 am

JohnPowell wrote:
What Jihadis? He's against war and always will be. What are you talking about? How many people has McDonnell killed? Why's he disgusting?


McDonnell and Corbyn are two anti-western peas in a pod, and they're only anti-war when it suits their pernicious agenda. They've got form for cosying up to terrorists and anyone opposes the West's values. You know exactly what I'm talking about. John McDonnell's evil comments about the Brighton bombing should never be forgotten, and nor should Corbyn's cringeworthy shows of solidarity with Islamists who preach death to Jews and gays, and rank women as lower than plankton.

McDonnell, as you probably are aware, has made a career out of hate speech and using the language of violence, but in the right-on minds of those who agree with him, his prejudices are the correct ones to have, so he remains all saintly in their eyes!

JohnPowell wrote:
What evidence do you have that it's a "tiny few" or is going to be?


I can count on one hand the amount of people I know who still intend on voting Labour, compared with well over 50% just a few years ago. The Labour Party has, over the last few days, reinforced the reasons why huge swathes of their support has deserted them. They've rejected democracy in spectacular fashion and retreated into their own make-believe world of student-union fantasy. You couldn't make it up.

JohnPowell wrote:
They left their support base in the 90's. At least actually believes in what he does. Blair and co carried out mass immigration and multiculturalism to "rub the right's nose in diversity and render their argument's out of date".


Corbyn has proposed to do the exact same thing with no limits whatsoever.

Leaving this stupidity about rubbing people's noses in diversity aside, I believe most people from all different backgrounds rub along quite well in the UK. The EU's free movement policy is not about any concern for immigrants or multicultural ideology. It's there to keep wages at rock bottom for big business. I believe Corbyn has acknowledged this, to his credit, but he's so bogged down in the dogma of the far-left, he has no intention of acting in the interests of Labour voters on the issue.

JohnPowell wrote:
There's no such thing as right and left, well they're just creations to divide people. Corbyn and co should wake up and realise that mass immigration has been used to divide the Labor movement and the working class. Can't have people working together against our corrupted rulers.


I know there's some thick people out there who like to blame the immigrants themselves for every single problem, but this 'divide and rule' theory is pretty insulting to the majority of people who it just doesn't apply to. I suggest you try talking to some real people, rather than allowing the likes of Diane Abbott to fill your head with crap.

Where I'll agree with you here is that the line between right and left is now a faint blur at best. Corbyn and Co are pretty much identical to far-right movements that we've seen down the years. The only difference is the orientation of their self-righteous prejudices. You don't have to go too far from the common-sense centre ground to either the right or the left, before you meet in the middle of the political circle and mirror the side you're supposedly against.



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30 Sep 2016, 6:03 am

JohnPowell wrote:
Labour membership has nearly doubled in a year or so. Most of them joined because of Corbyn.


It's common knowledge that a lot of people snapped up Ed Miliband's £3 membership just to throw a spanner in Labour's cogs.

Anarchists. Socialist Worker activists... Leftists who despised the NuLabour movement and wished to take the party back to the left of Michael Foot. Then of course there was a lot of sniggering Daily Mail readers and UKIPers!

A lot of people have had a right laugh, but it's not really very funny. We've got a fairly benevolent incarnation of the Conservative Party at the moment, but the country needs a serious opposition to keep them in check. I'm sorry, but we're a million miles away from having that right now.



Biscuitman
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01 Oct 2016, 3:48 am

In this week's least surprising news story, the vice chairperson of Momentum has been suspended for making anti semitic comments.



Davvo7
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02 Oct 2016, 11:04 am

And in even less surprising news, the hard working activist in question, who has fought racial injustice for 40 years and is Jewish herself simply questioned why other atrocities which claimed a greater number of lives weren't included in holocaust memorial day. (Such as the murder of 100 million native inhabitants of what you now call the USA, 10 Million Africans killed by King Leopold of Belgium, 20 million Russians and eastern Europeans killed by Stalin, the millions killed by the forces of the British Empire....the list is depressingly long) Yet this simple and fair question is seized upon as antisemitism for political gain. I have a black triangle tattoo on my arm to commemorate the millions of disabled people killed in the same camps alongside millions of Russians, Gypsies, LGB people, trade unionists and left wing political activists. All murdered by the same Nazi's who killed the Jewish prisoners. Are they remembered in the same way? No. Why not? Why is that antisemitic to ask? Why were the people forced to wear a black triangle not commemorated on the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin? How is this antisemitic to point out the disparity between the value placed on peoples lives? It simply isn't. All lives matter in the end; is the fact that she is also a vocal black woman in a predominantly white male political sphere significant in the vitriol I wonder? :?:

The Elephant in the room is that being critical of the Israeli government mistreatment of displaced Palestinians is not the same thing as antisemitism; however, right wing press will jump all over it to perpetuate their Pro-Zionist position and it is conflated as antisemitism. It is simply a device to stop criticism. Yet at the same time facebook closes hundreds of accounts of Palestinian Journalists and concerned activists to silence criticism. I'm sure there will be a response along the lines of, "Well they attack us, so we kill them!" I will not engage in that level of shite. The British Government and its people cannot cover up the part they played in the subjugation of the citizens of 114 countries we colonised, neither can anybody else who was involved in inhumane and immoral acts throughout history irrespective of their religion or creed, and that includes christians, muslims and jews. Failure to do so is far more offensive and proves we have not learned from our history, which I firmly believe we haven't done.

In the UK, the rampant xenophobia of the disgusting Brexit campaign have brought about a huge increase in racially aggravated attacks on British citizens and other racial minorities alike. Co-incidence? Close down criticism of the authorities and sow the seeds of racial hatred to give weak minds a scapegoat to take their frustrations out on rather than the Government/Authority itself. "It's all the foreigners fault, they come here taking our jobs, lazy bastards who will rape our women! But I am outraged you might have said something that somebody has said is antisemitic and you must resign immediately!" The areas who voted the highest to leave the EU had received the least amount of Government investment for decades and were part of a modern day 'managed decline' like the despicable and evil woman thatcher tried in Merseyside in the 80's and continued by the millionaire war criminals blair and cameron. Guess what, it didn't work and we socialists are still here!

In the meantime nobody reports the dozens of tory scum MP's caught committing election fraud or their concerted attacks on the poor whilst promoting tax fraud for the richest party contributors. The attacks on the support (financial or otherwise) for disabled people are constant and have directly led to thousands of suicides. But no, Mr Corbyn who has constantly supported disabled people like the majority on this forum, a free NHS available to all and a fair minimum wage so people can afford to feed their children without food banks is the villain. If Mr Corbyn is a Trotskyite, then by the same twisted logic, his critics are Fascists.

The system isn't broken, it was always fixed this way. However, a movement to reclaim power from the right has begun and none of your right wing bleating will stop it.



Biscuitman
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02 Oct 2016, 11:35 am

Not sure if that was aimed at me or whether it was just a general point, but I am very much on the left, I just think Corbyn is an appalling leader of people.



Gwydion
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02 Oct 2016, 12:06 pm

Davvo7 wrote:
And in even less surprising news, the hard working activist in question, who has fought racial injustice for 40 years and is Jewish herself simply questioned why other atrocities which claimed a greater number of lives weren't included in holocaust memorial day. (Such as the murder of 100 million native inhabitants of what you now call the USA, 10 Million Africans killed by King Leopold of Belgium, 20 million Russians and eastern Europeans killed by Stalin, the millions killed by the forces of the British Empire....the list is depressingly long) Yet this simple and fair question is seized upon as antisemitism for political gain. I have a black triangle tattoo on my arm to commemorate the millions of disabled people killed in the same camps alongside millions of Russians, Gypsies, LGB people, trade unionists and left wing political activists. All murdered by the same Nazi's who killed the Jewish prisoners. Are they remembered in the same way? No. Why not? Why is that antisemitic to ask? Why were the people forced to wear a black triangle not commemorated on the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin? How is this antisemitic to point out the disparity between the value placed on peoples lives? It simply isn't. All lives matter in the end; is the fact that she is also a vocal black woman in a predominantly white male political sphere significant in the vitriol I wonder? :?:

The Elephant in the room is that being critical of the Israeli government mistreatment of displaced Palestinians is not the same thing as antisemitism; however, right wing press will jump all over it to perpetuate their Pro-Zionist position and it is conflated as antisemitism. It is simply a device to stop criticism. Yet at the same time facebook closes hundreds of accounts of Palestinian Journalists and concerned activists to silence criticism. I'm sure there will be a response along the lines of, "Well they attack us, so we kill them!" I will not engage in that level of shite. The British Government and its people cannot cover up the part they played in the subjugation of the citizens of 114 countries we colonised, neither can anybody else who was involved in inhumane and immoral acts throughout history irrespective of their religion or creed, and that includes christians, muslims and jews. Failure to do so is far more offensive and proves we have not learned from our history, which I firmly believe we haven't done.

In the UK, the rampant xenophobia of the disgusting Brexit campaign have brought about a huge increase in racially aggravated attacks on British citizens and other racial minorities alike. Co-incidence? Close down criticism of the authorities and sow the seeds of racial hatred to give weak minds a scapegoat to take their frustrations out on rather than the Government/Authority itself. "It's all the foreigners fault, they come here taking our jobs, lazy bastards who will rape our women! But I am outraged you might have said something that somebody has said is antisemitic and you must resign immediately!" The areas who voted the highest to leave the EU had received the least amount of Government investment for decades and were part of a modern day 'managed decline' like the despicable and evil woman thatcher tried in Merseyside in the 80's and continued by the millionaire war criminals blair and cameron. Guess what, it didn't work and we socialists are still here!

In the meantime nobody reports the dozens of tory scum MP's caught committing election fraud or their concerted attacks on the poor whilst promoting tax fraud for the richest party contributors. The attacks on the support (financial or otherwise) for disabled people are constant and have directly led to thousands of suicides. But no, Mr Corbyn who has constantly supported disabled people like the majority on this forum, a free NHS available to all and a fair minimum wage so people can afford to feed their children without food banks is the villain. If Mr Corbyn is a Trotskyite, then by the same twisted logic, his critics are Fascists.

The system isn't broken, it was always fixed this way. However, a movement to reclaim power from the right has begun and none of your right wing bleating will stop it.


Who on Earth is this directed at?



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03 Oct 2016, 2:12 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
the majority of Labour voters want Corbyn in


At the 2010 general election there were 8.2M Labour voters and at the 2015 general election there were 9.3M Labour voters.

Corbyn just got 313,000 votes.


You realise that those 9.3 million weren't all Labour party members?


Yes, that's what I thought you didn't understand as above you called them 'Labour voters' which was wrong. In terms of the number of Labour party members who vote in a GE, the numbers are so small they are actually only a fraction of a percentage.


Well, we'll have to wait and see. He's got a lot of work to do after the attempted coup and the media's rampage.


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03 Oct 2016, 2:24 pm

Gwydion wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
What Jihadis? He's against war and always will be. What are you talking about? How many people has McDonnell killed? Why's he disgusting?


McDonnell and Corbyn are two anti-western peas in a pod, and they're only anti-war when it suits their pernicious agenda. They've got form for cosying up to terrorists and anyone opposes the West's values. You know exactly what I'm talking about. John McDonnell's evil comments about the Brighton bombing should never be forgotten, and nor should Corbyn's cringeworthy shows of solidarity with Islamists who preach death to Jews and gays, and rank women as lower than plankton.

McDonnell, as you probably are aware, has made a career out of hate speech and using the language of violence, but in the right-on minds of those who agree with him, his prejudices are the correct ones to have, so he remains all saintly in their eyes!

JohnPowell wrote:
What evidence do you have that it's a "tiny few" or is going to be?


I can count on one hand the amount of people I know who still intend on voting Labour, compared with well over 50% just a few years ago. The Labour Party has, over the last few days, reinforced the reasons why huge swathes of their support has deserted them. They've rejected democracy in spectacular fashion and retreated into their own make-believe world of student-union fantasy. You couldn't make it up.

JohnPowell wrote:
They left their support base in the 90's. At least actually believes in what he does. Blair and co carried out mass immigration and multiculturalism to "rub the right's nose in diversity and render their argument's out of date".


Corbyn has proposed to do the exact same thing with no limits whatsoever.

Leaving this stupidity about rubbing people's noses in diversity aside, I believe most people from all different backgrounds rub along quite well in the UK. The EU's free movement policy is not about any concern for immigrants or multicultural ideology. It's there to keep wages at rock bottom for big business. I believe Corbyn has acknowledged this, to his credit, but he's so bogged down in the dogma of the far-left, he has no intention of acting in the interests of Labour voters on the issue.

JohnPowell wrote:
There's no such thing as right and left, well they're just creations to divide people. Corbyn and co should wake up and realise that mass immigration has been used to divide the Labor movement and the working class. Can't have people working together against our corrupted rulers.


I know there's some thick people out there who like to blame the immigrants themselves for every single problem, but this 'divide and rule' theory is pretty insulting to the majority of people who it just doesn't apply to. I suggest you try talking to some real people, rather than allowing the likes of Diane Abbott to fill your head with crap.

You mean they don't support when Western politicians and co go into countries across the world, blow up the people and steal the resources? Good! Which "terrorists" are they cosying up to? You realise these people aren't angry or fighting because of "Western values"?? Who preached "Death to Jews"? Generalising much?

What were Mcdonnell's evil comments? What hate speech?

At least Corbyn is honest about it, rather than pretending to be against immigration like Cameron. Corbyn is at least looking for answers even if some of them are stupid in my eyes. Anyone on the "left" is terrified of criticising immigration.

Haha, Diane Abbot. It applies to everyone. People are being divided in all kinds of ways and distracted, so they don't look for the real answers. So by middle ground, you mean "moderates" who support blowing up the Middle East?


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03 Oct 2016, 2:25 pm

Gwydion wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Labour membership has nearly doubled in a year or so. Most of them joined because of Corbyn.


It's common knowledge that a lot of people snapped up Ed Miliband's £3 membership just to throw a spanner in Labour's cogs.

Anarchists. Socialist Worker activists... Leftists who despised the NuLabour movement and wished to take the party back to the left of Michael Foot. Then of course there was a lot of sniggering Daily Mail readers and UKIPers!

A lot of people have had a right laugh, but it's not really very funny. We've got a fairly benevolent incarnation of the Conservative Party at the moment, but the country needs a serious opposition to keep them in check. I'm sorry, but we're a million miles away from having that right now.



It's well known is it? Well that solves it.


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03 Oct 2016, 2:27 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
In this week's least surprising news story, the vice chairperson of Momentum has been suspended for making anti semitic comments.


She made the horrific mistake of saying that other atrocities should be recognised. How awful of her. Not to mention that she's Jewish.


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03 Oct 2016, 2:33 pm

What on earth has her being Jewish got to do with anything? (Unless you are using a playground style insinuation that jews can't be antisemites etc)