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There were people of color in medieval Europe!

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naturalplastic
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31 Oct 2016, 6:34 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
:twisted:
friedmacguffins wrote:
Did he help found the church, or was he the odd-man-out.

So, we're mentioning taggers. We know that some writing has been left. Should it be honorable mention.


Vikings were used as hired muscle back then. Their reputation spread across Europe and the Middle East and as such they became well paid bouncers


Thats about the size of it.

Kinda like Jagger hiring the Hells Angels at Altamount.

Some Vikings (mostly Norwejian and Danish) ventured west from Scandanavia - maurading the Atlantic coast of Europe and then entering the Mediterranean through Gibralter. Other Vikings (mostly Swedish) ventured east across the Baltic to explore the river systems of what is now Russia, trading with the Slavic tribes. Some emerged upon the Black sea and reached the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantines hired them to form the much feared Varangian Guard who were often used to guard the Empire's Mediterranean shores from (among other military enemies) the other Vikings coming at Byzantium from the West.



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02 Nov 2016, 12:57 am

beneficii wrote:
The 2016 article "Hawks, Horses, and Huns" by John D. Niles, which is about the impact the Huns had on Anglo-Saxon culture, can be found here:

http://www.academia.edu/26820839/_Hawks ... 016_133-64


I have no doubt that the Huns had had an underestimated and underappreciated impact on Europe. That said, I question if cultural influence of steppe culture on Europe came from the Huns alone. It must be remembered how the earliest Indo-European speakers, the Yammana and Maykop cultures, had been dwellers of the steppe and the region between the Caspian and Black seas. These first Indo-Europeans apparently shared a similar culture with their Turkic and Mongolian neighbors, with whom they had had a great deal of contact with. The later Cimmerians, Scythian, and Sarmatians who remained Eurasian steppe nomads had been of the same Indo-European origin, and had doubtlessly passed their cultural influence onto their kin who had settled down in Europe, as well.


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02 Nov 2016, 1:55 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
beneficii wrote:
The 2016 article "Hawks, Horses, and Huns" by John D. Niles, which is about the impact the Huns had on Anglo-Saxon culture, can be found here:

http://www.academia.edu/26820839/_Hawks ... 016_133-64


I have no doubt that the Huns had had an underestimated and underappreciated impact on Europe. That said, I question if cultural influence of steppe culture on Europe came from the Huns alone. It must be remembered how the earliest Indo-European speakers, the Yammana and Maykop cultures, had been dwellers of the steppe and the region between the Caspian and Black seas. These first Indo-Europeans apparently shared a similar culture with their Turkic and Mongolian neighbors, with whom they had had a great deal of contact with. The later Cimmerians, Scythian, and Sarmatians who remained Eurasian steppe nomads had been of the same Indo-European origin, and had doubtlessly passed their cultural influence onto their kin who had settled down in Europe, as well.


I am not as knowledgeable about earlier Steppe peoples, so this contribution is welcome.

One thing I've looked at was the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European word atta ("father", "dad"), which is also used in Turkic with the same meaning. Altaicists, who propose that Mongolic, Turkic, Tungusic, and Manchu languages are part of the same language family, Altaic, which other Altaicists also add Koreanic and Japonic (includes Japanese) to, have reconstructed a cognate, or linguistic cousin of that word, as ete. You can clearly see this word in most Indo-European and Altaic languages, but it may be harder to spot in English and Japanese, because in the history of both languages the consonant in the middle was replicated at the front of the word (in English it's "dad" or "daddy", and in Japanese, it's chichi (originally titi)).

I think there has been a lot more contact across Eurasia than has been previously acknowledged, and the idea of a separate Europe and Asia is ludicrous in light of that history.


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02 Nov 2016, 6:56 pm

beneficii wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
beneficii wrote:
The 2016 article "Hawks, Horses, and Huns" by John D. Niles, which is about the impact the Huns had on Anglo-Saxon culture, can be found here:

http://www.academia.edu/26820839/_Hawks ... 016_133-64


I have no doubt that the Huns had had an underestimated and underappreciated impact on Europe. That said, I question if cultural influence of steppe culture on Europe came from the Huns alone. It must be remembered how the earliest Indo-European speakers, the Yammana and Maykop cultures, had been dwellers of the steppe and the region between the Caspian and Black seas. These first Indo-Europeans apparently shared a similar culture with their Turkic and Mongolian neighbors, with whom they had had a great deal of contact with. The later Cimmerians, Scythian, and Sarmatians who remained Eurasian steppe nomads had been of the same Indo-European origin, and had doubtlessly passed their cultural influence onto their kin who had settled down in Europe, as well.


I am not as knowledgeable about earlier Steppe peoples, so this contribution is welcome.

One thing I've looked at was the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European word atta ("father", "dad"), which is also used in Turkic with the same meaning. Altaicists, who propose that Mongolic, Turkic, Tungusic, and Manchu languages are part of the same language family, Altaic, which other Altaicists also add Koreanic and Japonic (includes Japanese) to, have reconstructed a cognate, or linguistic cousin of that word, as ete. You can clearly see this word in most Indo-European and Altaic languages, but it may be harder to spot in English and Japanese, because in the history of both languages the consonant in the middle was replicated at the front of the word (in English it's "dad" or "daddy", and in Japanese, it's chichi (originally titi)).

I think there has been a lot more contact across Eurasia than has been previously acknowledged, and the idea of a separate Europe and Asia is ludicrous in light of that history.


Yes, the separation of Europe and Asia is a myth created out of racial and cultural division.
And I wouldn't be the least surprised at the common origin of certain Asiatic and European words, as the ancestors of Indo-European speakers had arisen on the eastern steppe. Even today, among Turkic and Mongolian populations in Asia, one can still find the occasional individual with blue eyes, lighter colored hair, or fair skin, proof that they had had a very cozy relationship with their neighbors.


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02 Nov 2016, 7:56 pm

None of this particularly newsworthy.

Anglo Saxon English is part of a vast language family that spans both Europe and Asia.


In the 1700's they noticed that Latin,Greek, and modern Italian, all had a strong resemblance to Sanskrit (the dead ancient language of India even older than Latin and Greek). That lead to the modern discovery of the Indoeuropean language family that embraces most of the living languages of Europe, and many languages of a vast swath of Asia. A language family with its origins either in central asia, or originating with migrants passing through Central Asia (the exact point of origin is still hotly debated).

They have found mummies of blonde/red headed scandanavian looking people in the desert northwestern Sinkiang region of China who probably spoke Tocharian (the exinct eastern extension of the proto Indoeuropeans).

The region was subsequently over run by the Turkic speaking Uighurs who absorbed the occidental looking people who made the mummies. The Uighurs, are the resident people of the region today.

Modern Indoeuropan languages dominate in the northern two thirds of the Indian subcontinent, Iran, parts of former soviet central asia, the kurds and armenians in Turkey, and ofcourse includes the slavic, germanic, celtic, romance, languages, and Greek and Albanian.

The Hittites of Anatolia were also Indoeuropean speakers, as were their later Anatolian descendants. But Indo European languages were displaced in Anatolia when anatolia was invaded by Turks from central Asia (making Anatolia into "Turkey").



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03 Nov 2016, 1:46 am

naturalplastic wrote:
None of this particularly newsworthy.

Anglo Saxon English is part of a vast language family that spans both Europe and Asia.


In the 1700's they noticed that Latin,Greek, and modern Italian, all had a strong resemblance to Sanskrit (the dead ancient language of India even older than Latin and Greek). That lead to the modern discovery of the Indoeuropean language family that embraces most of the living languages of Europe, and many languages of a vast swath of Asia. A language family with its origins either in central asia, or originating with migrants passing through Central Asia (the exact point of origin is still hotly debated).

They have found mummies of blonde/red headed scandanavian looking people in the desert northwestern Sinkiang region of China who probably spoke Tocharian (the exinct eastern extension of the proto Indoeuropeans).

The region was subsequently over run by the Turkic speaking Uighurs who absorbed the occidental looking people who made the mummies. The Uighurs, are the resident people of the region today.

Modern Indoeuropan languages dominate in the northern two thirds of the Indian subcontinent, Iran, parts of former soviet central asia, the kurds and armenians in Turkey, and ofcourse includes the slavic, germanic, celtic, romance, languages, and Greek and Albanian.

The Hittites of Anatolia were also Indoeuropean speakers, as were their later Anatolian descendants. But Indo European languages were displaced in Anatolia when anatolia was invaded by Turks from central Asia (making Anatolia into "Turkey").


DNA testing of the Tocharian mummies in China in fact has them most genetically resembling the people of southern Germany, and Austria, from which people of the R1b Haplogroup coming from between the Caspian and Black seas region had settled, before exploding outward northward, southward, and westward, remaking western and central Europe. Apparently, a branch of theirs had ended up in the far east.


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