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Should Virginia governor Northam resign over racist pix

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Should governor Northam be forced to resign?
Yes - there should be zero tolerance 27%  27%  [ 7 ]
Yes - if Hollywood and business figures must resign over past sex harassment 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
No - he has clearly "outgrown" it 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
No - as long as he still governs effectively 38%  38%  [ 10 ]
Who cares? 12%  12%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 26

Campin_Cat
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04 Feb 2019, 4:14 pm

AspE wrote:
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I don't really understand why black-face hurts people. ...

You might not be aware of the history of minstrelsy as it relates to blackface. I learned about it through my study of the banjo. It was a kind of revisionist history that tried to romanticize plantation life, picturing it in a patronizing way, as if their music and dance were expressions of a carefree life under slavery. So it couldn't have been brutal and dehumanizing, because look- music.

No, I didn't, really, know all of that. I only knew that when someone put on a minstrel show, they blackened their face, and sang "Mammy", or "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot", or whatever.

AFAIC, it doesn't matter, though. I still say one can CHOOSE to wallow in it, or let it roll off them----AND, when nothing is done, time and again, when someone whines, then they quit whining, eventually.

Black people are the ONLY group of people who whine, pretty much, constantly, about stuff (NOT all of them, do). I'm Irish----all my life, when I was growing-up, people put-down the Irish, for being lazy and drunks. Before PC, the Polish probably had the most jokes made about them, than any other ethnicity. Jewish people, according to some, are shysters. Mexicans are criminals. Asians are stinky (BO). And the list goes on and on----but, you don't hear any of THOSE people cryin' the blues, all-the-time.




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04 Feb 2019, 5:41 pm

I was making the point that he might have been a racist as*hole in the old days----but that he changed his tune mightily over the past 20 years.

I was pretty racist----until I actually MET black people.



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04 Feb 2019, 6:48 pm

I'm between no and who cares.

I'm sure I disagree with him on many issues, but this is a stupid reason to ask him to resign.


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04 Feb 2019, 9:41 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
No, I didn't, really, know all of that. I only knew that when someone put on a minstrel show, they blackened their face, and sang "Mammy", or "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot", or whatever.

AFAIC, it doesn't matter, though. I still say one can CHOOSE to wallow in it, or let it roll off them----AND, when nothing is done, time and again, when someone whines, then they quit whining, eventually.

Black people are the ONLY group of people who whine, pretty much, constantly, about stuff (NOT all of them, do). I'm Irish----all my life, when I was growing-up, people put-down the Irish, for being lazy and drunks. Before PC, the Polish probably had the most jokes made about them, than any other ethnicity. Jewish people, according to some, are shysters. Mexicans are criminals. Asians are stinky (BO). And the list goes on and on----but, you don't hear any of THOSE people cryin' the blues, all-the-time.

Asians are the only people without BO. Look that up. And I would whine like crazy about anti-semitism. Most Jews would. I think we are making progress as a nation because we make a fuss about casual prejudice. It's a learning opportunity.



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05 Feb 2019, 4:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I was making the point that he might have been a racist as*hole in the old days----but that he changed his tune mightily over the past 20 years.

I was pretty racist----until I actually MET black people.


Neither you nor Northam are unique in that regard Kraftie
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06 Feb 2019, 5:30 pm

AspE wrote:
Zinnia86 wrote:
AspE wrote:
Zinnia86 wrote:
Rather than just assuming he's racist because he did something dumb in college, I would be more interested in an analysis of his current policies to see whether they have in general had a positive or negative impact on non-white people. That is the more relevant issue.

No it isn't.


Could you say a little more about why you think that's true?

Current events. The reputation of the party and it's future. He could be a saint now and he still needs to go.

And why would anyone want to join the party if they had no job security? You can literally have done nothing wrong and everything right and it means absolutely nothing?



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06 Feb 2019, 5:53 pm

A number of years ago, two high schools within driving distance of where I lived at the time had a football game on Halloween night and the band members from one school were told to dress in costumes for the game.

Two good friends, one white and one black decided to dress up as the other race. So the white guy went to the game in blackface so well applied that you couldn't tell that he was white.

The black guy wore a KKK robe and white gloves. Absolutely no skin was visible to see that he was black.

During the half time performance, the black guy had a solo on his trumpet. After his perfect solo, he took the hood off on the KKK robe he was wearing and the crowd went wild.

I don't know if anyone was offended, but if someone was offended, it was because they wanted to be offended.

The same goes for all this other politically correct nonsense. It's not offensive unless you are bound and determined to be offended. And if you are bound and determined to be offended, you are going to find something to offend you anyway.



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06 Feb 2019, 7:11 pm

Drake wrote:
AspE wrote:
Zinnia86 wrote:
AspE wrote:
Zinnia86 wrote:
Rather than just assuming he's racist because he did something dumb in college, I would be more interested in an analysis of his current policies to see whether they have in general had a positive or negative impact on non-white people. That is the more relevant issue.

No it isn't.


Could you say a little more about why you think that's true?

Current events. The reputation of the party and it's future. He could be a saint now and he still needs to go.

And why would anyone want to join the party if they had no job security? You can literally have done nothing wrong and everything right and it means absolutely nothing?

If you care more about holding office than holding principles, get lost.



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06 Feb 2019, 7:41 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
No, I didn't, really, know all of that. I only knew that when someone put on a minstrel show, they blackened their face, and sang "Mammy", or "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot", or whatever.

AFAIC, it doesn't matter, though. I still say one can CHOOSE to wallow in it, or let it roll off them----AND, when nothing is done, time and again, when someone whines, then they quit whining, eventually.

Black people are the ONLY group of people who whine, pretty much, constantly, about stuff (NOT all of them, do). I'm Irish----all my life, when I was growing-up, people put-down the Irish, for being lazy and drunks. Before PC, the Polish probably had the most jokes made about them, than any other ethnicity. Jewish people, according to some, are shysters. Mexicans are criminals. Asians are stinky (BO). And the list goes on and on----but, you don't hear any of THOSE people cryin' the blues, all-the-time.

AspE wrote:
Asians are the only people without BO. Look that up.

Yeah, I know. I was saying what others say about various ethnicities----like, considering I have a Jewish sister (by ethnicity, because her father was Jewish, and by faith, because she converted), I certainly don't think they're shysters----but, thanks for putting that, in case someone else doesn't know.

AspE wrote:
And I would whine like crazy about anti-semitism. Most Jews would.

Well, as I was raised around sooooo many Jewish people (see above), I don't think I've ever heard any of them whine about anti-semitism----they just let it roll-off them, consider the source, and see that source as incredibly ignorant.

AspE wrote:
I think we are making progress as a nation because we make a fuss about casual prejudice. It's a learning opportunity.

I don't see us making progress, AT ALL----in fact, I almost see us goin'-down the crapper, socially, or whatever, because we make such a fuss about "casual prejudice". That's the problem in a nutshell, I believe one has to pick their battles, and if one expends so much energy over the "little" stuff, I feel they will miss SOOOOO MUCH, in life, sweatin' the small stuff.

Don't get me wrong, as I said, I know what it's like for someone to make fun of me (I imagine every ASDer, here, can relate), I just think it's silly to expend so much energy/emotion, on it; but, some people just LOVVVVVE to be victims.




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Campin_Cat
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06 Feb 2019, 7:50 pm

kokopelli wrote:
The same goes for all this other politically correct nonsense. It's not offensive unless you are bound and determined to be offended. And if you are bound and determined to be offended, you are going to find something to offend you anyway.

Exactly!






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AspE
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06 Feb 2019, 9:34 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
I don't see us making progress, AT ALL----in fact, I almost see us goin'-down the crapper, socially, or whatever, because we make such a fuss about "casual prejudice". That's the problem in a nutshell, I believe one has to pick their battles, and if one expends so much energy over the "little" stuff, I feel they will miss SOOOOO MUCH, in life, sweatin' the small stuff.

Don't get me wrong, as I said, I know what it's like for someone to make fun of me (I imagine every ASDer, here, can relate), I just think it's silly to expend so much energy/emotion, on it; but, some people just LOVVVVVE to be victims.

There is something to be said for proportionality, but give racists an inch... Just look at how much overt prejudice and physical attacks have increased since the public perception that Trump approves of racism.



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06 Feb 2019, 11:07 pm

...I have yet to see any explanation of what the stated meaning of the picture in 1984 was. Is there a readable repro of the entire two, I think it was, pages anywhere?
I do assume that it was an intended JOKE. I don't believe (if it was him) that he was trying to declare his symphathy with the KKK by dressing in a Klan-type outfit! Active anti-black rwcism, even in the South, is far more than just the KKK, anyway! I believe the KKK long so split into umpteen quibbling factions - Unlike the mighty organization they were in the post-bellem period and the Twenties!


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07 Feb 2019, 3:03 am

ASS-P wrote:
...I have yet to see any explanation of what the stated meaning of the picture in 1984 was. Is there a readable repro of the entire two, I think it was, pages anywhere?
I do assume that it was an intended JOKE. I don't believe (if it was him) that he was trying to declare his symphathy with the KKK by dressing in a Klan-type outfit! Active anti-black rwcism, even in the South, is far more than just the KKK, anyway! I believe the KKK long so split into umpteen quibbling factions - Unlike the mighty organization they were in the post-bellem period and the Twenties!


Exactly!

If we only looked for candidates who never made mistakes or did anything boneheaded, nobody would ever be elected anything.


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Drake
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07 Feb 2019, 6:52 am

AspE wrote:
Drake wrote:
AspE wrote:
Zinnia86 wrote:
AspE wrote:
Zinnia86 wrote:
Rather than just assuming he's racist because he did something dumb in college, I would be more interested in an analysis of his current policies to see whether they have in general had a positive or negative impact on non-white people. That is the more relevant issue.

No it isn't.


Could you say a little more about why you think that's true?

Current events. The reputation of the party and it's future. He could be a saint now and he still needs to go.

And why would anyone want to join the party if they had no job security? You can literally have done nothing wrong and everything right and it means absolutely nothing?

If you care more about holding office than holding principles, get lost.

But they could be holding every principle you want them to, and they'd still be given the boot, and for what? Because some people are gonna bump their gums for a short while and then forget all about it? He's still there and I don't think he's going anywhere, so you'll get to see how trivial I'm sure this whole thing will be.

How about a principle of not scapegoating people?



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07 Feb 2019, 7:09 am

,..Maybe she was not, but it may e seems like CC was coming out in favor of teasing/bullying/being nasty to people because ' it'll toughen you up " :cry: . I think back to how when I was in school, and people were, including physically, nasty to me :cry: - Authority figures would say " If you don't pay any attention to them, they'll stop " but in fact they didn't :cry: . I think maybe, if I could have pushed their teeth down their throats and nipped them over the head with a chair leg :twisted: at least they would have felt some pain :evil: ? I would not have gotten away with it, I suppose :| . Maybe the authority figured were on their side :( . The reported " don't be overly aggressive/nasty " rules in some schools etc. probably has swing too far in some situation s.
However, I wish I could have gone when people were a little nicer :cry: .


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" Oh, no! First you have to PROVE you deserve to go away to college! " ~ My mother, 1978 (the heyday of Andy Gibb and Player). I would still like to go.:-(
My life destroyed by Thorazine and Mellaril - and rape - and the Psychiatric/Industrial Complex. SOB:-(! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!


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07 Feb 2019, 10:35 am

Drake wrote:
But they could be holding every principle you want them to, and they'd still be given the boot, and for what? Because some people are gonna bump their gums for a short while and then forget all about it? He's still there and I don't think he's going anywhere, so you'll get to see how trivial I'm sure this whole thing will be.

How about a principle of not scapegoating people?

Oh, he's going somewhere. Maybe McDonald's. Scapegoating applies to the innocent.