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VegetableMan
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07 Feb 2019, 11:30 pm

AspE wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It was actually Democrats who supported Hillary that started the birther BS during the 2008 Democratic primaries, just to be clear.

Liar.



Nope. I do my research, It did originate with Hillary supporters. Trump lied when he claimed that the disinformation campaign was sanctioned by Hillary, but there is no evidence to support that.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/


You might want to do some research on your own before you call someone a liar. Your credibility on this website is already hanging by a thread.


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EzraS
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07 Feb 2019, 11:35 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
AspE wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It was actually Democrats who supported Hillary that started the birther BS during the 2008 Democratic primaries, just to be clear.

Liar.



Nope. I do my research, It did originate with Hillary supporters. Trump lied when he claimed that the disinformation campaign was sanctioned by Hillary, but there is no evidence to support that.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/


You might want to do some research on your own before you call someone a liar. Your credibility on this website is already hanging by a thread.


It seems like he's just into screwing with people.



kraftiekortie
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07 Feb 2019, 11:38 pm

Trump kept it up, though....and was a leader in it. That cannot be denied.



VegetableMan
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07 Feb 2019, 11:41 pm

EzraS wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
AspE wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It was actually Democrats who supported Hillary that started the birther BS during the 2008 Democratic primaries, just to be clear.

Liar.



Nope. I do my research, It did originate with Hillary supporters. Trump lied when he claimed that the disinformation campaign was sanctioned by Hillary, but there is no evidence to support that.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/


You might want to do some research on your own before you call someone a liar. Your credibility on this website is already hanging by a thread.


It seems like he's just into screwing with people.



I thought that for awhile. But I don't think so. He's just a useful tool for the propagandists. To be fair, ten years ago, I was just like him -- until I woke up.


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VegetableMan
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07 Feb 2019, 11:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump kept it up, though....and was a leader in it. That cannot be denied.



That's true, no argument there. I just wanted to clarify that it didn't start on the right.


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VegetableMan
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07 Feb 2019, 11:47 pm

I apologize to the mods for any hash comments I make from time to time. But when I make statement that I know to be true, and then get accused of being a liar...well, that just pisses me off.


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Kraichgauer
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07 Feb 2019, 11:57 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
We know from Manafort and Cohen, among other sources, that Trump's people had met with Putin's agents in the Trump Tower.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
We know Trump had gotten loans from Russia and the Saudis, who in turn never pushed for reimbursement, as they realized the control they had over him was of much greater use.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump had defended Alt Right white nationalists at Charlottesville by calling them good people


He said there were good people on both sides. Which comes off as an attempt at being diplomatic.

Kraichgauer wrote:
and emphasizing that they had had a permit while the anti-racist counter protesters did not - - all on live TV!


That's just a statement of fact.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Etc, etc, etc.


Like I said. But how much of it is valid?


Valid and demonstrable enough for Robert Mueller.


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EzraS
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08 Feb 2019, 12:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump kept it up, though....and was a leader in it. That cannot be denied.


It was a political stunt. They happen in every election I'm sure. But I think the thing with this is linking Kenya to racism because most people in Kenya are black. The same as linking Norway to racism because most people in Norway are white. It's always the side that's supposed to be fighting racism, that basis things on race and makes race an issue constantly playing the racism card.



EzraS
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08 Feb 2019, 12:01 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
We know from Manafort and Cohen, among other sources, that Trump's people had met with Putin's agents in the Trump Tower.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
We know Trump had gotten loans from Russia and the Saudis, who in turn never pushed for reimbursement, as they realized the control they had over him was of much greater use.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump had defended Alt Right white nationalists at Charlottesville by calling them good people


He said there were good people on both sides. Which comes off as an attempt at being diplomatic.

Kraichgauer wrote:
and emphasizing that they had had a permit while the anti-racist counter protesters did not - - all on live TV!


That's just a statement of fact.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Etc, etc, etc.


Like I said. But how much of it is valid?


Valid and demonstrable enough for Robert Mueller.


In what way?



Kraichgauer
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08 Feb 2019, 12:03 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
We know from Manafort and Cohen, among other sources, that Trump's people had met with Putin's agents in the Trump Tower.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
We know Trump had gotten loans from Russia and the Saudis, who in turn never pushed for reimbursement, as they realized the control they had over him was of much greater use.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump had defended Alt Right white nationalists at Charlottesville by calling them good people


He said there were good people on both sides. Which comes off as an attempt at being diplomatic.

Kraichgauer wrote:
and emphasizing that they had had a permit while the anti-racist counter protesters did not - - all on live TV!


That's just a statement of fact.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Etc, etc, etc.


Like I said. But how much of it is valid?


Valid and demonstrable enough for Robert Mueller.


In what way?


What Mueller hasn't uncovered, he eventually will.


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Kraichgauer
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08 Feb 2019, 12:11 am

EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump kept it up, though....and was a leader in it. That cannot be denied.


It was a political stunt. They happen in every election I'm sure. But I think the thing with this is linking Kenya to racism because most people in Kenya are black. The same as linking Norway to racism because most people in Norway are white. It's always the side that's supposed to be fighting racism, that basis things on race and makes race an issue constantly playing the racism card.


The accusation against Obama's alleged birth place is based entirely on the color of his skin. Had he been an American of Norwegian ancestry there would have been no accusations of being born outside of American soil. Racism against black Americans is what Trump was playing to. Maybe it was just a political stunt in Trump's mind, but it was ugly and had had far reaching ramifications that he had never considered for the future of the country's race relations.


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EzraS
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08 Feb 2019, 12:14 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
We know from Manafort and Cohen, among other sources, that Trump's people had met with Putin's agents in the Trump Tower.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
We know Trump had gotten loans from Russia and the Saudis, who in turn never pushed for reimbursement, as they realized the control they had over him was of much greater use.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump had defended Alt Right white nationalists at Charlottesville by calling them good people


He said there were good people on both sides. Which comes off as an attempt at being diplomatic.

Kraichgauer wrote:
and emphasizing that they had had a permit while the anti-racist counter protesters did not - - all on live TV!


That's just a statement of fact.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Etc, etc, etc.


Like I said. But how much of it is valid?


Valid and demonstrable enough for Robert Mueller.


In what way?


What Mueller hasn't uncovered, he eventually will.


So you listed a bunch of accusations you said there was demonstrable proof of, but when pressed to show demonstrable proof, you switch to basically admitting there isn't any, but there supposedly will be according to prognostication. It's all just a lot of propaganda isn't it?



EzraS
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08 Feb 2019, 12:28 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump kept it up, though....and was a leader in it. That cannot be denied.


It was a political stunt. They happen in every election I'm sure. But I think the thing with this is linking Kenya to racism because most people in Kenya are black. The same as linking Norway to racism because most people in Norway are white. It's always the side that's supposed to be fighting racism, that basis things on race and makes race an issue constantly playing the racism card.


The accusation against Obama's alleged birth place is based entirely on the color of his skin. Had he been an American of Norwegian ancestry there would have been no accusations of being born outside of American soil. Racism against black Americans is what Trump was playing to. Maybe it was just a political stunt in Trump's mind, but it was ugly and had had far reaching ramifications that he had never considered for the future of the country's race relations.


That sounds like something those obsessed with playing the race card came up with.



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08 Feb 2019, 12:40 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump kept it up, though....and was a leader in it. That cannot be denied.


It was a political stunt. They happen in every election I'm sure. But I think the thing with this is linking Kenya to racism because most people in Kenya are black. The same as linking Norway to racism because most people in Norway are white. It's always the side that's supposed to be fighting racism, that basis things on race and makes race an issue constantly playing the racism card.


The accusation against Obama's alleged birth place is based entirely on the color of his skin. Had he been an American of Norwegian ancestry there would have been no accusations of being born outside of American soil. Racism against black Americans is what Trump was playing to. Maybe it was just a political stunt in Trump's mind, but it was ugly and had had far reaching ramifications that he had never considered for the future of the country's race relations.


That sounds like something those obsessed with playing the race card came up with.


To deny the racism behind Trump's birtherism is to deny the history of racism in America.


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Kraichgauer
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08 Feb 2019, 12:44 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
We know from Manafort and Cohen, among other sources, that Trump's people had met with Putin's agents in the Trump Tower.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
We know Trump had gotten loans from Russia and the Saudis, who in turn never pushed for reimbursement, as they realized the control they had over him was of much greater use.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump had defended Alt Right white nationalists at Charlottesville by calling them good people


He said there were good people on both sides. Which comes off as an attempt at being diplomatic.

Kraichgauer wrote:
and emphasizing that they had had a permit while the anti-racist counter protesters did not - - all on live TV!


That's just a statement of fact.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Etc, etc, etc.


Like I said. But how much of it is valid?


Valid and demonstrable enough for Robert Mueller.


In what way?


What Mueller hasn't uncovered, he eventually will.


So you listed a bunch of accusations you said there was demonstrable proof of, but when pressed to show demonstrable proof, you switch to basically admitting there isn't any, but there supposedly will be according to prognostication. It's all just a lot of propaganda isn't it?


Are you seriously questioning that there was a meeting with Russian agents in Trump Tower? Or that Trump had gotten loans from Russia (confirmed by his sons, Uday and Cusei) and Saudi Arabia? Is it really diplomatic to side with violent racists?


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EzraS
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08 Feb 2019, 1:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
We know from Manafort and Cohen, among other sources, that Trump's people had met with Putin's agents in the Trump Tower.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
We know Trump had gotten loans from Russia and the Saudis, who in turn never pushed for reimbursement, as they realized the control they had over him was of much greater use.


What demonstrable proof is there of that?

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump had defended Alt Right white nationalists at Charlottesville by calling them good people


He said there were good people on both sides. Which comes off as an attempt at being diplomatic.

Kraichgauer wrote:
and emphasizing that they had had a permit while the anti-racist counter protesters did not - - all on live TV!


That's just a statement of fact.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Etc, etc, etc.


Like I said. But how much of it is valid?


Valid and demonstrable enough for Robert Mueller.


In what way?


What Mueller hasn't uncovered, he eventually will.


So you listed a bunch of accusations you said there was demonstrable proof of, but when pressed to show demonstrable proof, you switch to basically admitting there isn't any, but there supposedly will be according to prognostication. It's all just a lot of propaganda isn't it?


Are you seriously questioning that there was a meeting with Russian agents in Trump Tower? Or that Trump had gotten loans from Russia (confirmed by his sons, Uday and Cusei) and Saudi Arabia? Is it really diplomatic to side with violent racists?


I'm asked for the demonstrable proof you said existed. You said I'll have to wait for it. That must mean that no demonstrable proof exists. And then the default word "racist".