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4 In 5 Britons Say Anti-Vaxers Should Face Prosecution

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Kraichgauer
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16 Nov 2020, 5:13 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
The idea that proof of vaccination will be required do things such as travel or hold a job etc is very concerning to many.


Why? Shouldn't other countries feel safe from being infected by American travelers?


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Tempus Fugit
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16 Nov 2020, 5:24 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
The idea that proof of vaccination will be required do things such as travel or hold a job etc is very concerning to many.


Why? Shouldn't other countries feel safe from being infected by American travelers?


I mean even where you live. What you're saying can be taken down to the level of, shouldn't your family, neighbors and co-workers feel safe from being infected?

New law: you want to leave the house, go to the store, go to work? You'll have to have proof of vaccination to do those and other things.

Already things have been forced on society that a year ago most people would've said would never happen. Now the unthinkable has become the new norm.



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16 Nov 2020, 5:33 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
The idea that proof of vaccination will be required do things such as travel or hold a job etc is very concerning to many.


Why? Shouldn't other countries feel safe from being infected by American travelers?


I mean even where you live. What you're saying can be taken down to the level of, shouldn't your family, neighbors and co-workers feel safe?

You want to leave the house, go to the store, go to work? You'll have to have proof of vaccination to do those and other things.

Already things have been forced on society that a year ago most people would've said would never happen. Now the unthinkable is the new normal.


I seriously doubt citizens will have to present papers to law enforcement that they've been vaccinated. It's completely reasonable though that children be vaccinated before they can attend school.


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Tempus Fugit
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16 Nov 2020, 5:38 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
The idea that proof of vaccination will be required do things such as travel or hold a job etc is very concerning to many.


Why? Shouldn't other countries feel safe from being infected by American travelers?


I mean even where you live. What you're saying can be taken down to the level of, shouldn't your family, neighbors and co-workers feel safe?

You want to leave the house, go to the store, go to work? You'll have to have proof of vaccination to do those and other things.

Already things have been forced on society that a year ago most people would've said would never happen. Now the unthinkable is the new normal.


I seriously doubt citizens will have to present papers to law enforcement that they've been vaccinated. It's completely reasonable though that children be vaccinated before they can attend school.


What would you have said a year ago about mandatory massive lockdowns, shutdowns, curfews, mandatory facemask wearing and so on? I bet you would've said "I seriously doubt that would ever happen". And then probably give a list of good reasons why.



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16 Nov 2020, 5:59 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
What would you have said a year ago about mandatory massive lockdowns, shutdowns, curfews, mandatory facemask wearing and so on? I bet you would've said "I seriously doubt that would ever happen". And then probably give a list of good reasons why.

The entire purpose of vaccinations is to *prevent* such restrictions…

If fewer people get vaccinated, then more of these harsher restrictions will likely remain in place.



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16 Nov 2020, 5:59 am

This is a health issue, not a civil liberties issue.

People should stop relying on pure statistics. They should see what’s going on in the hospitals where COVID is rampant.

Do you feel we should have let Typhoid Mary run rampant, working in restaurants?

As for distribution—make it national, even international....forget about “jurisdiction.” Slash the red tape when it reveals itself.



Kraichgauer
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16 Nov 2020, 6:13 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
The idea that proof of vaccination will be required do things such as travel or hold a job etc is very concerning to many.


Why? Shouldn't other countries feel safe from being infected by American travelers?


I mean even where you live. What you're saying can be taken down to the level of, shouldn't your family, neighbors and co-workers feel safe?

You want to leave the house, go to the store, go to work? You'll have to have proof of vaccination to do those and other things.

Already things have been forced on society that a year ago most people would've said would never happen. Now the unthinkable is the new normal.


I seriously doubt citizens will have to present papers to law enforcement that they've been vaccinated. It's completely reasonable though that children be vaccinated before they can attend school.


What would you have said a year ago about mandatory massive lockdowns, shutdowns, curfews, mandatory facemask wearing and so on? I bet you would've said "I seriously doubt that would ever happen". And then probably give a list of good reasons why.


But I agree with all those things.


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Tempus Fugit
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16 Nov 2020, 6:16 am

GGPViper wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
What would you have said a year ago about mandatory massive lockdowns, shutdowns, curfews, mandatory facemask wearing and so on? I bet you would've said "I seriously doubt that would ever happen". And then probably give a list of good reasons why.

The entire purpose of vaccinations is to *prevent* such restrictions…

If fewer people get vaccinated, then more of these harsher restrictions will likely remain in place.


That's a mighty good incentive to guarantee compliance.

I'm not an anti-vaxer. I plan on getting my covid vaccination the same as I already got my influenza vaccination.

However, if this were a sheep to slaughter plan, it would succeed.



magz
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16 Nov 2020, 8:05 am

Seems like "the West" (including here) is suffering a serious trust crisis.
What could be done to convince people to cooperate for common goals?


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Tempus Fugit
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16 Nov 2020, 8:18 am

It seems more to me like most are too trusting and adverse to even questioning authority.



kraftiekortie
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16 Nov 2020, 8:22 am

If we were skeptical about vaccines in the 20th century, we would still have polio, diphtheria, even rabies to deal with.

Imagine if we had COVID19 in a 1900 environment? With all these other diseases running rampant?

Public health must supersede libertarian concerns.



magz
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16 Nov 2020, 8:23 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
It seems more to me like most are too trusting and adverse to even questioning authority.

I have a different impression.
I have an impression that people don't know who to trust so they choose randomly.


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16 Nov 2020, 8:30 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
If we were skeptical about vaccines in the 20th century, we would still have polio, diphtheria, even rabies to deal with.

Imagine if we had COVID19 in a 1900 environment? With all these other diseases running rampant?

Public health must supersede libertarian concerns.


I don't think it's the vaccine itself so much as the unprecedented conditions imposed by governments.



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16 Nov 2020, 8:39 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
It seems more to me like most are too trusting and adverse to even questioning authority.

I'd argue we're both trusting and distrusting in the wrong ways. If we trust to conform, because 'everyone who doesn't is a hatter', or because Anderson Cooper told me so we're doing it wrong. If we distrust because of something David Icke, a random actor or actress, or someone with a spiritual warfare channel said we're doing it wrong.


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magz
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16 Nov 2020, 8:52 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
It seems more to me like most are too trusting and adverse to even questioning authority.
I'd argue we're both trusting and distrusting in the wrong ways. If we trust to conform, because 'everyone who doesn't is a hatter', or because Anderson Cooper told me so we're doing it wrong. If we distrust because of something David Icke, a random actor or actress, or someone with a spiritual warfare channel said we're doing it wrong.
That't the point.
From the flood of random information, people turn out surprisingly poor in weighting its value.
Social media algorithms reinforce their confirmation bias, showing mainly the results matching whatever they seek.
Partisan politicians fuel the phenomenon to gain votes on tribal emotions.

How to achieve reasonable doubt and constructive discussion in such environment?


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16 Nov 2020, 9:00 am

Regarding trust ...

In the US, Dr. Fauci intentionally lied to citizens, and said we don't need masks for COVID.

He thought lieing to citizens would save masks for first responders who needed masks more.

Dr. Fauci Made the Coronavirus Pandemic Worse by Lying About Masks
https://gizmodo.com/dr-fauci-made-the-c ... 1844050358

This enabled Trump to often say, "See, I was right. We don't need masks".


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