Fever can unlock autism's grip: study (Reuters)

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When I am sick, I don't notice if I am less Autistic, because I am usually concerned about my illness.

true story:

feverish patient in the ED, speaking to me: 'Wow, you're pretty. You're so pretty. Gosh, don't you think she's pretty, Dad?'
(Dad is rolling his eyes).

Being feverish is quite a bit like being drunk for some people - some happy drunks, some angry drunks, some glum drunks. Depends on the nature of the individual in question. isn't there a thread somewhere about alcohol making Aspies more NTish?

Ya, i have heard thios theory before. Very interesting scientific evidence tho, I always wondered!

I first wanted to say: NO! Definitely not. But maybe...

I had a bad fever at age four during which I began to hallucinate even - it wasn't much fun, it was so horrible that I remember it even now. However, come to think of it, I also remember (somewhat, next to dancing balls in the living-room) talking to my mom whenever I was awake. I really wanted to talk to her, make sure I didn't just die there miserably on my owe, while, of course, in retrospective I doubt I was anywhere close to dying. Thing is, I usually wasn't very responsive during that age and I didn't initiate conversations myself.

But whether this was a serious improvement to before and after or just I, pushing myself as hard as I could; I don't know that.

Interesting. Heat opens circuitry previously sealed shut.

old news - it's interesting - i believe it is something parents noticed - and someone decided test the theory to see if there was any basis of truth, small research study with interesting results - that's all, although interesting to wonder about the reasons for the difference.

It's not just Auties/Aspies who are affected.
Parents of kids with ADD/ADHD report the same thing.

Personally, I'm an ADDer and have been trying to get the world to wake up to this since I was 20 .... 26 years ago.

So it was with some exuberance that I read this report, last week.

It is for me, complete (but tragically, very temporary) remission from my grinding ADD.

A personal take : -

I recently just got over a cold - and the most noticable difference in the
day (with a cold) is when you wake up, your head is FULL of thought.
But when the cold has gone, you're aware on waking up, that your head is
pretty much DEVOID of thought.
It's like someone turned off the power button - and I'd LOVE to see the
brain scans of an Aut/ADDer during and after a fever.

The lack of endogenous thought means that (normally/without
immune-provocation/fever) one is almost dependent on external factors to
stimulate thought and conversation.
These factors (external to the thinking mind) include 'internal', physical
sensations, both from outside and internal sources (hunger, etc).
And because the mind is focused outwardly (rather than on endogenous
thoughts), these stimuli figure much larger in the mind.
To wit, there is a test wherein one is asked to lick sticky tape from a
reel - as far as you can until you're out of saliva.
You then suck on a lemon and repeat the test.
Introverts (for which, read ADDers/Aspies ... and yes - despite all
contention to the contrary, they are (and define) introverts) are found to
lick MUCH more tape after sucking the lemon than extroverts, for whom the
physical stimulus has little effect.

The same goes for all other external stimuli.
This (IMNSHO) is down to two things : -
1) - the afore-mentioned lack of endogenous thought to occupy the mind
2) - the general fear/apprehension-levels wrought by an underactive
executive control centre (ie - social or mind "blindness")

But ADD and Autistic SD's are not "disease" states.
They are central to the requirement of all social species for hierarchy.
There need to be chiefs and there need to be Indians.

Evolution favoured those in whom the ability to sort the group into
hierarchy is achieved at lowest cost.
The highest cost scenario is battling it out every time competed-for
resources are up for grabs.
The lowest cost scenario is the group falling into a naturally-mediated
hierarchy - best achieved at the hardware level, with those at the bottom,
innately regarding themselves as inferior to those higher up.

We call this introversion at the social level.
And ADD/ASD at the biological level.

So there's not much point in Science looking at ADD/ASD from a disease
perspective - trying to find external, pathogenic causes ... because it's
hard-wired in all of us.
It need look no further than the brain scanner.

So during a fever/immune-provoked episode, it can be said that Aspies/ADDers
rise up the social hierarchy (as I am personally able to attest), courtesy
of the increased social competency/extraversion conferred by an active
(prefontal cortex) executive and behavioural control centre.

During these times, they can think and feel - and be happy, and free from
fear and frustration.
Thoughts fill the mind - it is no longer blind/blank.
The full mind drives sociable and appropriate behaviour - the individual
becomes extraverted, sociable and company-seeking.
One finds one's self entertained by one's thoughts, as do other people - one
in short, develops a personality for the duration of the fever/immune-prov.
The full mind creates a endogenously-driven individual, in contrast to the
normally mind-blank/blind introvert floundering confused and apprehensive in
the darkness.
One is immersed in one's thoughts/personality.
One is in the world, rather than a spectator upon it.
-----------

Some links to ADD Usenet postings : -

http://groups.google.com/group/bionet.n ... d646017cd9

Some copied postings (no longer available on Google Groups) : -

All messages from thread "ADHD and Fever"

Message 1 in thread
From: wteam ([email protected])
Subject: ADHD and Fever


View this article only

Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
Date: 1997/11/11
Why is my child less hyperactive and why does he get better attention when
he have fever ?
I have ask this once before on this newsgroup.

wteam/Sweden
Message 2 in thread
From: John Palmer ([email protected])
Subject: Re: ADHD and Fever


View this article only

Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
Date: 1997/11/12
On 11 Nov 97 23:27:34 GMT, "wteam" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Why is my child less hyperactive and why does he get better attention when
>he have fever ?
>I have ask this once before on this newsgroup.

I haven't seen your question before, but I've seen the point
raised by other people. It DOES seem that some ADD children have
fewer symptoms when sick. No one (that I know of ) knows why.

--
"Everything I needed to know in life, I learned in
kidnergarten. Like: morality must exist beyond the
purview of a deity if morality is to have a meaning
beyond tyranny.
Message 3 in thread
From: [email protected] ([email protected])
Subject: Re: ADHD and Fever


View this article only

Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
Date: 1997/11/14
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (John Palmer) wrote:
>
> On 11 Nov 97 23:27:34 GMT, "wteam" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Why is my child less hyperactive and why does he get better attention when
> >he have fever ?
> >I have ask this once before on this newsgroup.
>
> I haven't seen your question before, but I've seen the point
> raised by other people. It DOES seem that some ADD children have
> fewer symptoms when sick. No one (that I know of ) knows why.
>
> --
> "Everything I needed to know in life, I learned in
> kidnergarten. Like: morality must exist beyond the
> purview of a deity if morality is to have a meaning
> beyond tyranny.

My goody-goody twin brother Dave had a fever a while ago, and wanted to
know it made him feels so rotten. So, like, he did some reading up on
It, and showed me what he found. I saw some stuff that may explain why
his ADHD isnt as bad when he's sick. I call it:

"Tigers Great Theory On Why an ADHDer Can Think Better When He Feels
Like s**t".

Even in Grade One I learned that when I get sick from something I
picked up from someone else, its caused by a virus or bacteria. The
white coat guys call these pathogens, right? When one of these gets
into your bloodstream, a big cell called a macrophage grabs onto it.
Sort of like Mike, our hall monitor at school, when he sees a kid that
may cause some trouble. Then Mike takes this guy to one of the
teachers on hall duty. In your body, this is the helper T cell. The
teacher takes a look at the kid, and if he looks like trouble, calls
the office.

The office calls the cops, known to the white coats as killer T cells.
(Mr.'T', or what?) Then Mr'T' attacks. Goodbye troublemaker. At the
same time, the teachers talk to everyone in the staff room about the
kid they caught, so if he comes back, they'll recognize him, and give
him the boot, real fast. These are the B cells.

Now here's the reason you feel lousy. When Mike, the hall monitor,
calls to the teachers, he can't do it with words. Macrophages can't
speak, and if they could, they probably couldn't be heard with all that
blood rushing around. The only way he can communicate, is chemically.
Sorta like my brother in the lower bunk letting me know at 3:00am that
Read the rest of this message... (42 more lines)
Message 4 in thread
From: David Fox ([email protected])
Subject: Re: ADHD and Fever


View this article only

Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
Date: 1997/11/14
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:11:47 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

> The only way he can communicate, is chemically.
>Sorta like my brother in the lower bunk letting me know at 3:00am that
>he had burritos for dinner.

Don't ever sleep on a bunk bed under tiger. He peels back the
mattress and tries to spit in your open mouth.

Nyahh!

Dave

And an interesting summary from Dennis McBride in Oregon : -

http://groups.google.com/group/own.heal ... off&rnum=1

---------------------
Janurary 2,1998


My name is Dennis McBride.
I'm fifty four years old.
I've never married and never had children.
I have been treated for depressive cyclothymic mood disorder with ADHD symptoms since 1981 but have lived with this condition as far back as I can remember.
My treatment has been only moderately successful due to a hypersensitive difficulty in tolerating drugs.
My symptoms have been fairly chronic with rather rapid cycling mood patterns
and accompanying symptoms of ADHD, particularly acute restlessness,
distractibility, and frustration impatience.
I am writing to you in regards to the curious relief from symptoms which I experience when I contract the common cold.
With the onset of a cold and the appearance of upper respiratory infection and congestion my previous symptoms rapidly diminish.
There is a sense of calm patience and relaxation coupled with a sense of well being where life finally becomes pleasurable and desirable.
I am able to experience the enjoyment of being alive which is accompanied with sharpened perception and thought processes together with the aforementioned emotional tranquility.
These symptoms last the entirety of the infectious process, and as the cold
diminishes my previous symptoms return and life again becomes an ordeal of
emotional obstacles and internal turbulence.
I've recently become impressed with the fact that, since childhood, every time I've contracted a cold, I have consistently experienced the same type of relief from my symptoms.
I have decided to treat this as a legitimate area of inquiry.
I was unsure of where to start my search with what I realize could be regarded as merely an eccentric mission by someone with a somewhat stigmatized medical history but after receiving sincere support from intelligent friends, interested members of the mental health community, and genuine encouragement from my psychiatrist, Dr. Stu Oken, I have decided to go ahead.
My interest is in finding out if there are any similar reports in the literature and whether any research has been directed in this area.
I'd also like to know where I could go to increase my knowledge of the biochemical processes that occur during the common cold.
I would be very appreciative if you could spend a few minutes of thought on this matter and if you could direct me to anyone whose area of interest might be appropriate for this or whose clinical curiosity might be stimulated.
Thank you for your attention.
Sincerely,


Dennis McBride.
-------------------

Just adding message subscription.

Last edited by MemberSix on 10 Dec 2007, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hello, MemberSix. Welcome to WrongPlanet!

Despite your request for me to ignore your previous post, I will go ahead and consider it anyway. I am glad that someone else agrees with me about mental/communication/social abilities improving with a fever/cold. I am thinking of sending an email (or even calling) the lead author of the study and telling our viewpoints and voicing our agreement. It will give the researchers encouragement to go on with their work.

Absolutely - couldn't agree more.
They're finally on the RIGHT track.

A temporary cure is a cure nonetheless.
All funding should be diverted towards guiding research down this psycho-neuro-immuno-endocrynological path.
Governments spend trillions on fighting crime - and a VERY significant proportion of all crime (and particularly drug-related crime) is committed by ADHD sufferers.
Curing ADHD/ADD (and to an extent, possibly ASD) would instantly resolve a minimum of 50% of all the social problems we currently face.
And just imagine how much more productive the country would be.
It's simply a no-brainer.

Whether or not fever has any benefits for ASDs, misguided attempts to induce fever could be dangerous. Extremely high fevers can cause organ damage or even death. Morderately high fevers (102ish) can produce seizures ("febrile seizures") in children. Any method used to produce a fever could probably cause other problems.

Member six, welcome - your post and links were very interesting - thanks heaps

Thanks for your welcome, Lucy1.
I have more stuff squirrelled away, that I'll post up as soon as I get a minute.

EvilKimEvil, fever therapy is and has been used for many years as an alternative cancer cure.
There are even thermo-therapies for cancer, wherein a so-called fever-state is induced by making the patient VERY hot .... in mind, a complete waste of time, since it's provocation of the immune response that's responsible for the neurological changes.
Essentially, viral/bacterial pathogens trigger the immune system (IS) to produce cytokines which stimulate the vagus nerve (runs from the brain to the heart and lungs) to produce prostaglandin EPG2 in the hypothalamus, a specific region of which it acts on to induce the febrile (fever) response syndrome called 'sickness behaviour' (physically : malaise, aches and neurologically : remission from ADD/ASD).

I think I'll have to start a blog on this one, there's a bit too much to try and incorporate into a single thread.

I'll get it going over the next few weeks/Xmas.

If there are any web-gurus out there, maybe we could set up a website and forum where members can post their personal experiences and discuss related matters from the web, etc.
This is an infant in sore need of loving advocacy - and a website would be a great way of putting it on the scientific map.

Please feel free to PM me, at whim.

Ok...well when I had a fever, I actually became more autistic. I felt LESS able to communicate and wanted to be left alone, NOT hugged. All I wanted to do was lye in bed and stim...it seems like regressing, not improving social abilities.

I just hope that parents will not induce fevers in their children...that was the first though that came to mind when reading this article.

I doubt parents are likely to guinea-pig their children thusly - particularly given the ephemeral nature of fevers.

A lot of people have a particular loathing of colds/fevers - but if they happen to relieve the altogether more gruesome ADD, you tend to look forward to them.

First, what's "gruesome" about ADHD (the current name for what used to be called "ADD")?

Secondly, parents are already treating their autistic children as guinea pigs in reaction to all the hysteria over autism. They are already using drugs, saunas, and stranger methods to "get the mercury out". They're turning to all kinds of ABA variations, some or all of which may traumatize the child. I don't think that trying to induce a fever would be inconsistent with these actions.