The USA and Israel are planning to attack Iran

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tcorrielus
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06 Jun 2008, 9:40 pm

I don't like the fact that people are singling the USA out like this because many people around the globe are doing bad hurtful things. Therefore, this world we're living in is uncivilized.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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06 Jun 2008, 9:46 pm

It's questionable whether the U.S. is a democracy right now. Most of the public is against the war, but the congress doesn't change it's course. The Republicans in congress hold their hawkish stance, and the Dems continue to fail to challenge them.

The will of people seems irrelevant to American policy right now: two-thirds (at least) of the public is against the war, and the VP's response to that is "So?" (link)

There are some protests, but the doesn't cover them; which may make it seem like there is no dissent. I can't even watch any TV news anymore; it seems nothing but propaganda and lies (moreso than it was, anyway). Don't assume the American media necessarily reflects American public opinion (or much of anything else) accurately, either.



oscuria
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06 Jun 2008, 9:50 pm

The US is a republic, and not a true democracy.

I would definitely not want to live in a true democracy.


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preludeman
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06 Jun 2008, 9:51 pm

I think we should "Get Out Now", for they do not want, like,or need us over there.
We need to take care of our own problems, and solve them like the price of GAS.
Oil is in demand because more countries are becoming industrial. The Saudis have stated that they are pumping all they can, and the US Dollar is falling in value.We need to drill in the Gulf of Mexico, and find alternative fuels , or we are going to have an even larger crisis on our hands. We were warned about this happening in the 70's, and really did not pay attention.


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Apple_in_my_Eye
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06 Jun 2008, 9:55 pm

oscuria wrote:
The US is a republic, and not a true democracy.

I would definitely not want to live in a true democracy.


Ok, more accurately: it's not even functioning as a democratic republic. Just because it's not a direct democracy it doesn't mean the leaders are supposed utterly to ignore the will of the people. That makes a democratic republic indistinguishable from a dictatorship.



oscuria
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06 Jun 2008, 9:58 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
oscuria wrote:
The US is a republic, and not a true democracy.

I would definitely not want to live in a true democracy.


Ok, more accurately: it's not even functioning as a democratic republic. Just because it's not a direct democracy it doesn't mean the leaders are supposed utterly to ignore the will of the people. That makes a democratic republic indistinguishable from a dictatorship.


I happen to think that in certain circumstances the people's will should be ignored.


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Apple_in_my_Eye
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06 Jun 2008, 10:09 pm

oscuria wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
oscuria wrote:
The US is a republic, and not a true democracy.

I would definitely not want to live in a true democracy.


Ok, more accurately: it's not even functioning as a democratic republic. Just because it's not a direct democracy it doesn't mean the leaders are supposed utterly to ignore the will of the people. That makes a democratic republic indistinguishable from a dictatorship.


I happen to think that in certain circumstances the people's will should be ignored.


Yes, but the question is, is this one of those circumstances? IMO it isn't. A common tactic of dictators is to declare "temporary emergency powers" permanently. That overthrows the government with the (often legal) justification that "the people need to be overridden sometimes." Just because it makes sense sometimes means they're always right in doing it.



oscuria
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06 Jun 2008, 10:42 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
oscuria wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
oscuria wrote:
The US is a republic, and not a true democracy.

I would definitely not want to live in a true democracy.


Ok, more accurately: it's not even functioning as a democratic republic. Just because it's not a direct democracy it doesn't mean the leaders are supposed utterly to ignore the will of the people. That makes a democratic republic indistinguishable from a dictatorship.


I happen to think that in certain circumstances the people's will should be ignored.


Yes, but the question is, is this one of those circumstances? IMO it isn't. A common tactic of dictators is to declare "temporary emergency powers" permanently. That overthrows the government with the (often legal) justification that "the people need to be overridden sometimes." Just because it makes sense sometimes means they're always right in doing it.


In what circumstance? Iraq or Iran? Hmm. War isn't a democratic thing.

I don't see a reason to attack Iran yet, but I would like to see the Iranian Revolution deposed.


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LoveableNerd
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06 Jun 2008, 10:44 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
oscuria wrote:
The US is a republic, and not a true democracy.

I would definitely not want to live in a true democracy.


Ok, more accurately: it's not even functioning as a democratic republic. Just because it's not a direct democracy it doesn't mean the leaders are supposed utterly to ignore the will of the people. That makes a democratic republic indistinguishable from a dictatorship.


A dictatorship implies total or near-total control by one person. What we have is an oligarchy... near-total control by a small group of people. I call them the corporatocracy because they are the wealthy interests that control the corporations that own almost all the media (which is why you rarely hear any news that conflicts with their agenda) and are buying up the few outlets they don't own yet. They own nearly all the politicians (campaign finance reform my arse!). They have most of the judges in their hip pockets. And for most brainwashed Americans who still rely on the mainstream (owned) media for all of their news and what to believe, they own their minds.

Follow the money trail to the top of the food chain, there you will find our true rulers.


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LoveableNerd
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06 Jun 2008, 11:02 pm

oscuria wrote:
War isn't a democratic thing.


Did you know that the Iraq war is technically illegal? As well as the one in Afganistan, along with the ones in Vietnam and Korea? According to the Constitution, which is still the supreme law of the land, only Congress has the power to declare war. They have illegally ceded that authority to the President time and again.

The last war that the US declared legally was World War II, which un-coincidentally was the last war we clearly won. So, in the sense that our representatives are democraticly elected (in theory), war IS supposed to be a democratic thing.


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oscuria
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06 Jun 2008, 11:16 pm

LoveableNerd wrote:
oscuria wrote:
War isn't a democratic thing.


Did you know that the Iraq war is technically illegal? As well as the one in Afganistan, along with the ones in Vietnam and Korea? According to the Constitution, which is still the supreme law of the land, only Congress has the power to declare war. They have illegally ceded that authority to the President time and again.

The last war that the US declared legally was World War II, which un-coincidentally was the last war we clearly won. So, in the sense that our representatives are democraticly elected (in theory), war IS supposed to be a democratic thing.


Actually, unless I'm corrected, I was under the impression that the president can wage limited war without Congress' approval. Afterwards, the president will need Congress to supply it with the war budget to keep the war going; if it refuses then there is nothing the president can do and the troops must return home. There is a reason why wars are rarely declared. The constitution would be trampled if such an event occurred.

Remember, under your belief Kosovo under Clinton would have also been illegal.


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06 Jun 2008, 11:28 pm

Stimshieme wrote:
I'm just saying STICK UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS DON'T feel ashamed speak up because your country is attacking Muslims like the Nazi's are attacking Jews.


Wow, only three posts in and we're at Godwin's law already, impressive. Until we're rounding up civilians for organized extermination, rather than paying millions extra in smart munitions to prevent civilian casualties, I don't think you can really make the comparison.