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Magnus
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13 Oct 2008, 12:14 am

Most Germans didn't know what was going on during WWII because of propaganda. I think I made a proper comparison.

http://www.afghanistanafterdemocracy.com/page10.html

The statement these nuns made was, "Look, we broke into a nuclear power plant without any weapons. If you are so worried about terrorism, then properly take care of real potential threats."


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13 Oct 2008, 12:22 am

Magnus, what is the significance of your link to your argument?

Additionally: What is the cause of these children's mutations? With close searching, all I could find was a single reference to uranium munitions - I assume the author of the page is blaming the deformities on radiation affected fetal development? There were repeating instances of several photos, as far as I could tell; there was no information regarding the rate of occurrence of these births, or a comparison of that rate with the average rate of similar occurrences in the region and the world (a fallacy related to the effect of anecdotal evidence - one uses one or several instances to make generalizations, which are often affected by the emotional impact of the anecdotes). I could only tell from the url of the page that these photos are from "Afghanistan after democracy"; in that case, how do you justify the fact that the American invasion force used only human troops and conventional weapons and transportation, none relying on radioactive or biologically hazardous materials, while Afghani terrorists have been continuously attempting to produce "dirty" bombs and weapons from stolen supplies of depleted uranium?

Finally, how do you believe your link supports your argument?



Ishmael
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13 Oct 2008, 12:26 am

WTF?! You can't be serious!!
Don't tell me you've fallen for that "imperial America" nonsense...
The US government is stupid, insular, slave to it's culture. American corporations are greedy and unshy of exploitation.
But, even so, they don't have mad ambitions of "genetic purity" and global conquest!!
As for those pictures you link to - you do know the true origin of those deformities, right? Not that mad "uranium munitions" propaganda...
The US military is inept, for a developed nation, but not monstrous!


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Magnus
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13 Oct 2008, 12:27 am

"The majority of the masses would soon believe a great big lie than a small one."
Adolf Hitler

http://internationalnews.over-blog.com/ ... 92664.html

Ron Paul's Texas Straight Talk - A weekly Column

November 5, 2001
U.S. Taxpayers send Billions to our Enemies in Afghanistan

Even before September 11th, most Americans were well aware of the hostility that many Middle Eastern nations have for the U.S. Our experiences with Iran, Libya, Iraq, and now Afghanistan have understandably soured many Americans on the entire region. Indeed, the majority of anti-American sentiment in the post-Cold War era originates in the Middle East. What many Americans don't realize, however, is the extent to which their own foreign aid tax dollars are spent funding our current and future enemies in the region.
We should recognize that American tax dollars helped to create the very Taliban government that now wants to destroy us. In the late 1970s and early 80s, the CIA was very involved in the training and funding of various fundamentalist Islamic groups in Afghanistan, some of which later became today's brutal Taliban government. In fact, the U.S. government admits to giving the groups at least 6 billion dollars in military aid and weaponry, a staggering sum that would be even larger in today's dollars.
Bin Laden himself received training and weapons from the CIA, and that agency's military and financial assistance helped the Afghan rebels build a set of encampments around the city of Khost. Tragically, those same camps became terrorist training facilities for Bin Laden, who uses some of the same soldiers our military once trained as lieutenants in his sickening terrorist network. Our heroic pilots are now busy bombing the same camps we paid to build, all the while threatened by the same Stinger missiles originally supplied by our CIA. Once again, the stark result of our foreign aid, however well-intentioned, was the arming and training of forces that later become our enemy.
Our foolish funding of Afghan terrorists hardly ended in the 1980s, however. Millions of your tax dollars continue to pour into Afghanistan even today. Our government publicly supported the Taliban right up until September 11. Already in 2001 the U.S. has provided $125 million in so-called humanitarian aid to the country, making us the world's single largest donor to Afghanistan. Rest assured the money went straight to the Taliban, and not to the impoverished, starving residents that make up most of the population. Do we really expect a government as intolerant and anti-west as the Taliban to use our foreign aid for humane purposes? If so, we are incredibly naive; if not, we foolishly have been seeking to influence a government that regards America as an enemy.
Incredibly, in May the U.S. announced that we would reward the Taliban with an additional $43 million in aid for its actions in banning the cultivation of poppy used to produce heroin and opium. Taliban rulers had agreed to assist us in our senseless drug war by declaring opium growing "against the will of God." They weren't serious, of course. Although reliable economic data for Afghanistan is nearly impossible to find (there simply is not much of an economy), the reality is that opium is far and away the most profitable industry in the country. The Taliban was hardly prepared to give up virtually its only source of export revenue, any more than the demand for opium was suddenly going to disappear. If anything, Afghanistan's production of opium is growing. Experts estimate it has doubled since 1999; the relatively small country is now believed to provide the raw material for fully 75% of the world's heroin. How tragic that our government was willing to ignore Taliban brutality in its quest to find "victories" in the failed drug war.
U.S. taxpayers have a right to know exactly what we're getting for our foreign aid dollars. Have we helped bring peace and prosperity to Afghanistan? Have we eased suffering there? Have we added to stability in the region? Have we earned the love or respect of the Afghan people? Have we made an ally of the Taliban government? The answer to all of these entirely reasonable questions is a resounding NO. Afghanistan is in chaos, its people starving, and its government is now an outright enemy of the United States. As we yet again find ourselves at war with forces we once funded and supported, the wisdom of foreign aid must be challenged. Peaceful relations and trade with every nation should be our goals, and the first step in accomplishing both should be to stop sending taxpayer dollars overseas.


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Ishmael
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13 Oct 2008, 12:57 am

Why quote Hitler?! He was insane!!
Yes, the war is stupid!! But have you looked at it from the true perspectives of the afghani citizens and soldiers? They don't want the Taliban!!
They may not trust the US, but they dislike the Taliban even more!
You do know the complaints about the war are making it more difficult for the military to do what it needs? These types of wars take about a decade, with the full support of the people!
It was a stupid war to start - but do you want to abandon afghanis to the taliban?
You do realize those photos you linked to are unrelated, way out of context and used only as propaganda?
I'll say it again; the American government is stupid, not evil.


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Magnus
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13 Oct 2008, 1:07 am

I know it's hard to believe. The US funded the Taliban and the CIA trained them. Read my previous post again.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/115.html


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Ishmael
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13 Oct 2008, 1:43 am

Hard to believe and bollocks are two very different things.
For a perspective on the Iraq-Afghanistan problems, in a calmer, non-political voice, read "Running the war in Iraq", by Major General Jim Molan, or "18 hours", both very informative and written by Australian coalition soldiers - much higher up in the chain and more involved than a typical US "grunt".


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13 Oct 2008, 8:00 am

"In 2002, they were jailed after breaking into an unmanned missile site in northeastern Colorado". Crime against government property with political motive = terrorist.



Magnus
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13 Oct 2008, 2:05 pm

On this there will be no debate!

Hail Hitler! :lol:


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14 Oct 2008, 9:11 am

How do you define domestic terrorism?



Magnus
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14 Oct 2008, 11:47 am

Answer my question first please.

Quote:
If you were living in Germany when the Jews were in the concentration camps and millions of people were being slaughtered for the Fatherland,
would you have done anything?


More people die from peanut butter allergies in America than terrorism. I don't think people dying is a big government concern.
What they are concerned about is setting their agenda and establishing NWO through propaganda and brainwashing people into apathy.


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Ishmael
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14 Oct 2008, 12:08 pm

And? More people die on roads than in plane crashes.
Does that mean aircraft safety ought to go out the window?

You remember why all this anti-terror policies started, right?
After the 11/9 attacks, the American citizenry was howling for blood.
You lot pressured, even if inadvertantly, your government into instituting those laws.
You can't expect to be blameless.


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Magnus
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14 Oct 2008, 12:27 pm

That was the tactic. People are easily brainwashed.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... rd_Bernays


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Ishmael
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14 Oct 2008, 1:06 pm

Tactic? What could the tactical benefit be of the destruction of three major buildings, massive economic loss and instability, death of thousands, enourmous rescue effort and cost, a war costing many trillions and many lives, alienating the current administration from the voting public, greatly reducing the party's future chances, UN backlash, and an increasing level of hatred and contempt globally for Americans?


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14 Oct 2008, 6:54 pm

Science has proven that two Aeroplanes were insufficient to bring down one tower, let alone three. Each skyscraper was constructed to survive multiple impacts.

1/5th of America's population believes that the govt was behind 9/11. When will everyone else wake up?

War = profits. War = promotes weapons industry. War = establishes puppet governments. War = takes control of vital resources. There are countless reasons why a nation would want to declare war, especially a nation with a strong army. These reasons stand out.



Magnus
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14 Oct 2008, 9:42 pm

Oil is big business and at the rate the US was consuming it, we only had about 20 years left to maintain our current lifestyle.
Bush didn't even attend the world summit or explore green energy. In fact they continuously push people to buy and keep the economy going, stay the course, go along to get along, if you aint wid us yous agains us, etc.

It's all about $ human life equals 0


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As long as man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.

-Pythagoras