Principal cancelled 'O Canada' in school

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What *isn't* brainwashing? Tell me.

Tell me.

When I was a member of Triple Nine Society (a society for people with super high IQ scores) some years back, we were 'debating' the upcoming invasion of Iraq. The Americans in the group were hightly intelligent about most things, but as soon as nationalism was added to any debate, they sounded like little kids repeating what they'd been told as little kids, saluting the flag and reciting the oath of allegiance long before they were old enough to understand what it meant. One person hesitatingly suggested that non-Americans don't necessarily think the US is the greatest place on earth, something most kids in Piaget's study figured out by age 11-12. It sounds obvious but you'd be surprised at how unsophisticated adults can be when tested using standardized measures of cognitive/moral/social development.

The problem with introducing concepts to kids before they're old enough to get them is that if they don't revisit the issue later, they can spend their entire lives with distorted thinking. Like thinking that divorce was your fault because it happened at an age when kids think everything is their fault, and can't understand otherwise.

The problem with debating this on the basis of memories, is that people don't remember their inaccurate understanding until they acquire abstract reasoning (reasoning about reasoning) which usually kicks in by early adolescence. Research has shown this. This is the sort of issue that should be decided on the basis of research, not inaccurate recollections. If you could reason abstractly (and do algebra, and sarcasm) at age 7, then you probably did 'get' country. But it's more likely you got it wrong then and, like almost everyone else that age, remember it wrong because that's how kids remember their logic at that age.

I really wish that study were on the internet, with room for comments. Perhaps I should ask the journal for permission?

Some of the greatest Canadians have also been some of the dumbest.

Patriotism = Stupid Sh*t*-For-Brains

Yes, very subtle. Thank you.

Good question.



Many.



Yes, I agree with you. You are 100000% right.

i'm not sure how to answer that question but i'll try.

teaching a child to respect their country is one thing but forcing a child and using fear to do so is brainwashing, the same as stockholme syndrome to a kidnap victim. it's all about choice, if you don't choose your views then you've been brainwashed.

religion for an example, most people are religious because ''it's right'' yet hardly anyone who belongs to a religion started later on in their life. a child is very easy to mould, manipulate, and brainwash, and so whilst they're being taught tey're also picking up different things that they shouldn't be forced to.

when you believe something and don't know why... chances are you've been brainwashed.

Mind of a child topic

And equating negativity/brainwashing with the singing of the national anthem is one of the more ridiculous of issues in Canada. I do not include other countries here. I talk only of my own nation.

All of Jean's studies were done many years before internet, satellites, and six hundred plus TV channels. Young Canadian kids seem to know a lot more of Britney Spears and American idol than they know about their nation's leader. Except for Barack, I do not imagine many American kids do either. Many chldren find learning civics boring, as pop stars and wrestlers are more interesting, maybe less abstract.

Of course. It depends on the kind of exposure to politics, history and the concept of country.

Many families used to talk about day to day issues around the dinner table, and children would get ideas about their home and native land that way. Many of our politicians got their first taste of public issues this way. I would listen to the adults (others), and watch news programmes and read newspapers. I still do because I want to understand how things work.
This does not take a high amount of intelligence, but it does take some knowledge, and commitment--and exposure in the education system. Current events were always a favourite of mine in the early grades. I just took it one step further and continued this at home.

My children did little projects when they were in the primary grades, and did more elaborate research into civics and politics when they got older. They also learned in grade seven how to make the political system work by accessing local politicians, writing letters, meeting municipal government representatives, and the like. They learned that you can fight city hall. This is a good reason for learning about politics. Start with local issues. Persevere.

I am happy that our anthem was restored in that New Brunswick school classroom. They can sing it in French, too.

Politics at work.

Last edited by sartresue on 04 Feb 2009, 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If having some pride in your home, country, and community is evidence of brainwashing, that's the kind of mind control I can live with.

What about this goddamned World of Warcraft as a form of brainwashing?

Sometimes, what seems like "brainwashing" is actually "culture" and "upbringing" and "learning to be a human being."

Brainwashing is what happens to you shortly after you shave your head and join a cult. Or the military.

I remember having to sing the anthem and the lords prayer right from kindergarten, even though I was a confirmed agnostic from a young age. I really think this political correctness has gone way overboard, this is our country and I am damn proud to be a Canadian, if you don't want to pledge allegiance to the country of your birth fine, just don't whine if the majority want to show their appreciation of this country. My reason is to honor my father who served Canada in the PPCLI along with my uncle, and I am very proud of them.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJlu6uzBaXA[/youtube]

how could world of warcraft be classed as brainwashing?

i've thought about joining the military and i doubt there's much brainwashing going on over there, if anything it's brainwashing that leads most of the applicants therein the first place.

Yeah, so? Does that negate her point?

India is derived from the word "Hindu" or "Hindus River"

"Hindus River" => Indoi Potamos => India

How about Jews? Muslims and Jews are fighting iver the piece of dirt called Gaza. I don't see why seeing as the land was promised to them by the god they both worship, so shouldn't that mean that they could both live there in peace?

if 'god' gives you a piece of land you need to shed as much of your enemies blood as possible, and then burn as many of thyem as possible. just check out some information on the holy crusafe and other religious based wars and you'll see that i'm right.

The term "Hindu" itself is the old Persian pronounciation of "Sindhu". There is no "Hindu" religion, it's an umbrella term the Persians used for all ethnic groups and religions in the Indian subcontinent. Actually, what are actually considered as "Hindu sects" - Vashnavism, Shaivism, Shrautha, etc, are actually different Dharmaic faiths which share similarities with each other. The common core, or "Dharma", is known as Sanatana Dharma. The Indus river was called the "Hindu river" by the Persians. The Greeks pronounced it as "Indoi" - in-do-iee. Likewise, "Hindustan" is what Muslim invaders eventually called the subcontinent. The word "Hindu", derived from the Sanskrit "Sindhu", which was the name for the Indus river. However, "Sindhi" now refers only to the ethnic group emerging from the state of Sindh in Pakistan.

Sindhu -> India. Big difference. Indoi is much closer to "India". Sindhu now refers to Sindhis, most who inhabit a country called "Pakistan", a name coined in the early 20th century.

India actually officially calls itself "Bharat Ganrajay", along with "Republic of India". Bharata was a legendary emperor, and "Bharatvarsha" in the Puranas is the name for the whole world.

There are actually a lot of words from ancient texts which refer to the subcontinent as a whole, but Bharat is not one of them. According to the Mahabharata, King Bharata's realm consisted of the subcontinent as well as Persia and large parts of central Asia.

Last edited by Khan_Sama on 05 Feb 2009, 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

I don't think it really matters about WHAT the song/ritual before classes is in various countries. I say, if a school wants to ask kids to sing the national anthem/say a prayer/hop up and down on one leg whilst doing a Rolf Harris impression, then let them do it. What's the problem? If some kids don't want to do it, that's up to them and a school shouldn't force them, but telling them to stop it completely deprives the children who DO want to do it of whatever it is they are being deprived of...

I'm kinda rambling now, I hope you get my point...