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American Dentist kills Endangered Lion in Zimbabwe.

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justkillingtime
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03 Aug 2015, 10:31 am

Raptor, I miss your Eagle avatar.


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03 Aug 2015, 11:49 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
Raptor wrote:
What's a REAL problem in Africa is starvation and terrorism, to name a few. From an AFRICAN perspective, a cat being shot now and then is so far down on the totem pole of problems they'd need binoculars to see it.


I'm not sure how you can offer an African perspective? It's highly likely that the local people care very strongly about what happens near to them, in the same way you do.

To the local economy this one animal when alive was worth many, many times, per annum, what the poacher paid to kill it.

Yeah, right; all of the African nations are doing so splendidly that all thier people have to do is ponder a lion's fate as they sit in Starbucks and sip a frappuccino and attend to thier blogs and facebook postings.
What was I thinking?


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03 Aug 2015, 12:19 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Raptor wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Fnord wrote:
.
By the way, this is not a "Strawman" argument. This is a "False Dichotomy" argument. You might want to brush up on your debate techniques.


It's you trying to create a strawman to distract and detract from the poaching problem in African countries. You are more than welcome to start a thread on why the media chooses to focus on a particular story. How is it my fault what they focus on?

The problem is much worse than just one lion dying. The species, and several others, are incredibly low in numbers. Humans have got to decide, do they want to live in a world with fewer species? This is why you see attention being paid to conservation and wildlife in the media and on the Empire State Building.

If you really care so much, lobby the Republicans.


What's a REAL problem in Africa is starvation and terrorism, to name a few. From an AFRICAN perspective, a cat being shot now and then is so far down on the totem pole of problems they'd need binoculars to see it.


And you know what a real problem in America is? Lack of investment yet you do not see Republicans doing anything about that.

Wait a minute.
I thought the real problem in America (according to you) was an RC hobbyist rigging a 9mm to a drone and doing a youtube video of firing it.
Oh, wait; that was last week's crisis.
My bad.

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In fact, they are trying to take food out of the mouths of children here, some of which are descended from Africans!
So I'm descended from jerrys and mics that came over more recently but we as a people don't wait on the republicans or democrats to feed us and fix sugartits for us. And before you go there, when mine crossed the Atlantic it was with waves of other German and Irish immigrants and they were anything but welcome here. The Statue of Liberty may as well have flipped them the bird upon thier arrival.

Keep in mind that YOU changed the subject here, not me.


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03 Aug 2015, 12:23 pm

justkillingtime wrote:
Raptor, I miss your Eagle avatar.

Sometimes so do I and one of these day's I might give Inspector Callahan a vacation and bring back the bird and flag.


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03 Aug 2015, 12:34 pm

Raptor wrote:
neilson_wheels wrote:
Raptor wrote:
What's a REAL problem in Africa is starvation and terrorism, to name a few. From an AFRICAN perspective, a cat being shot now and then is so far down on the totem pole of problems they'd need binoculars to see it.


I'm not sure how you can offer an African perspective? It's highly likely that the local people care very strongly about what happens near to them, in the same way you do.

To the local economy this one animal when alive was worth many, many times, per annum, what the poacher paid to kill it.

Yeah, right; all of the African nations are doing so splendidly that all thier people have to do is ponder a lion's fate as they sit in Starbucks and sip a frappuccino and attend to thier blogs and facebook postings.
What was I thinking?


The implied argument is one of the silliest I have ever seen. Starbucks, indeed!

Zimbabwe is suffering under a tin pot dictator who has fanned the flames of racial hatred in order to cling to power.
The excesses and mismanagement of the oppressive regime of the sad, old, dying relic Mugabe have created an artificial famine in country rich in fertile land and once known as the breadbasket of Africa.
Despite this, there are plenty of people in Zimbabwe who care for their wildlife.

If you read the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force blog, you will see that they care about not only lions, but elephants and fish, too. They also work with hunters and anglers to preserve the ecosystems that support their sports.

It's not all black & white talking points or single track minds and Starbucks has nothing to do with it.



neilson_wheels
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03 Aug 2015, 1:24 pm

Raptor wrote:
neilson_wheels wrote:
Raptor wrote:
What's a REAL problem in Africa is starvation and terrorism, to name a few. From an AFRICAN perspective, a cat being shot now and then is so far down on the totem pole of problems they'd need binoculars to see it.


I'm not sure how you can offer an African perspective? It's highly likely that the local people care very strongly about what happens near to them, in the same way you do.

To the local economy this one animal when alive was worth many, many times, per annum, what the poacher paid to kill it.

Yeah, right; all of the African nations are doing so splendidly that all thier people have to do is ponder a lion's fate as they sit in Starbucks and sip a frappuccino and attend to thier blogs and facebook postings.
What was I thinking?


So local people includes a whole continent in your mind?

Where there is no internet people generally use TV, radio, newspapers and may even talk to each other to get their news.

You seem to be thinking that you could duck the main point and substitute some rubbish humour instead.

THIS IS THE MAIN POINT:

The poacher has removed a major asset from an area that has very few. He could have applied for a licence to hunt an animal deemed suitable to be culled. He did not and should now face the repercussions of his actions.



neilson_wheels
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03 Aug 2015, 1:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Haven't seen you in a while, Neilson: how's it going?


Hello KK, I'm well thanks, i tried to send you a PM but failed. Good to see you, hope all is good for you. NW.



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03 Aug 2015, 2:30 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
Raptor wrote:
neilson_wheels wrote:
Raptor wrote:
What's a REAL problem in Africa is starvation and terrorism, to name a few. From an AFRICAN perspective, a cat being shot now and then is so far down on the totem pole of problems they'd need binoculars to see it.


I'm not sure how you can offer an African perspective? It's highly likely that the local people care very strongly about what happens near to them, in the same way you do.

To the local economy this one animal when alive was worth many, many times, per annum, what the poacher paid to kill it.

Yeah, right; all of the African nations are doing so splendidly that all thier people have to do is ponder a lion's fate as they sit in Starbucks and sip a frappuccino and attend to thier blogs and facebook postings.
What was I thinking?


So local people includes a whole continent in your mind?

Where there is no internet people generally use TV, radio, newspapers and may even talk to each other to get their news.

You seem to be thinking that you could duck the main point and substitute some rubbish humour instead.

THIS IS THE MAIN POINT:

The poacher has removed a major asset from an area that has very few. He could have applied for a licence to hunt an animal deemed suitable to be culled. He did not and should now face the repercussions of his actions.


He paid $55,000 or so to shoot a lion and shot one that was old and quite likely to die within the next year or so considering the typical ages for male lions in the wild.

In what way is that not suitable to be culled?



Fugu
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03 Aug 2015, 2:45 pm

eric76 wrote:
He paid $55,000 or so to shoot a lion and shot one that was old and quite likely to die within the next year or so considering the typical ages for male lions in the wild.

In what way is that not suitable to be culled?
because the lion was lured off a nature reserve and killed illegally for sport. it's dishonest to claim that he was being culled.



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03 Aug 2015, 3:18 pm

eric76 wrote:
In what way is that not suitable to be culled?


The total lion population in Hwange National Park is just a few hundred individuals. They don't need a cull.

It's interesting to hear the fate of an innocent bystander who happens to have the same name as the infamous dentist:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sha ... es-n403091

Pretty sad and despicable.



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03 Aug 2015, 5:12 pm

^^^ [regarding the unfortunate fate which befell an innocent retired insurance salesman in Minnesota]
IMHO, the bad walter j. palmer poisoned the well of the good walter j. palmer. but the bad ones never care about anybody outside of their circle.



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03 Aug 2015, 5:20 pm

So is Dr. Palmer going to be extradited,or not?

His actions were deliberate and criminal, in a foreign country....if his crime involved

drugs, or any form of child abuse, he'd be in custody already.


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03 Aug 2015, 5:28 pm

it is highly likely that his money and his circle of sociopathic protectors will spare him any real pain. no jail for him, though by the time this is all over he will be a bit less wealthy. chances are he will never "get it."



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03 Aug 2015, 6:51 pm

Hey, I wouldn't mind hunting a lion.

Lion steaks sound good, in addition to the head collecting.

But, as with most things human, they went all or nothing in the past, which means we end up where we are now in regards to numbers, time after time. Conservation and farming are rather modern concepts for people that can't/couldn't see past the current day.



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03 Aug 2015, 8:12 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Hey, I wouldn't mind hunting a lion.

Lion steaks sound good, in addition to the head collecting.

But, as with most things human, they went all or nothing in the past, which means we end up where we are now in regards to numbers, time after time. Conservation and farming are rather modern concepts for people that can't/couldn't see past the current day.

Yeppers, all this talk about the evils of lion hunting has put me in the mood to book a lion hunt in Zimbabwe. It's an excuse to buy a new rifle, too. Think a .375 H&H should do?
:P


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03 Aug 2015, 8:52 pm

Raptor wrote:
Yeppers, all this talk about the evils of lion hunting has put me in the mood to book a lion hunt in Zimbabwe. It's an excuse to buy a new rifle, too. Think a .375 H&H should do?
:P


.375 H&H will get it done (I think it's the minimum in many places; that's being pretty conservative IMO). Lions don't need all that much compared to the bigger dangerous stuff from all the anecdotes I've read. They're pretty much Elk/big deer with teeth and claws. 9.2x62mm Mauser is a good substitute if you're short on funds, as Zastava makes a quality bolt gun in such for a bargain.

If no minimum, I'd probably follow in Bell's shoes and use a Ruger No.1 in .303 Brit (he used a falling block in .303 Brit when picking them off around the train tracks in Uganda as a teenager); I'd like an excuse to get one of those, and they're not all that expensive comparatively speaking when we're talking of conservation hunting.

If I lived in Africa and I had a problem lion, I guess I'd just plug it with whatever milsurp bolt gun I had handy; I guess .303 Brit is still popular over there and a common/cheap rifle (Lee-Enfields).

From my battery now, I'd get it done with 7.5x55mm and 6.5x52mm rifles (problem lion). Bell took most of his with cartridges of similar ballistics (including elephants).

An autistic man can dream. :)