5-year old aspie voted out of kindergarten by students

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ManErg
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29 May 2008, 4:42 am

Yupa wrote:
One thing I've learned from interacting with children who have been homeschooled is that most of them are, if not extremely clueless and withdrawn, generally people who have little to no respect for the feelings and personal boundaries of others, which can create quite more than a few problems for both themselves and others.
This, to me, is proof from my own observation that public schooling really is necessary (though I disagree with private schooling, due to the extremely conservative standards that private schools attempt to enforce)


And the problem with the publc schooled is that they just regurgitate the same old myths and rubbish that all the other public schooled churn out. Don't need to use your brain. Hey, just quote an anecdote based on one experience of yours and use it to justify the whole world.

Look, I've met dozens of people who have no, as you say "respect for the feelings and personal boundaries of others". Not one of them was home-schooled. The facts are that there is no connection between home-schooling and anti-social behaviour, but the keystone of public school is the importance of spouting consensus myth rather than bothering with facts. Say what teacher wants to hear, not the truth.

Maybe the others you describe are just a bit too precious about their "feelings and personal boundaries". Maybe they just don't like somebody who has a different experience.


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29 May 2008, 1:40 pm

ManErg wrote:
Yupa wrote:
One thing I've learned from interacting with children who have been homeschooled is that most of them are, if not extremely clueless and withdrawn, generally people who have little to no respect for the feelings and personal boundaries of others, which can create quite more than a few problems for both themselves and others.
This, to me, is proof from my own observation that public schooling really is necessary (though I disagree with private schooling, due to the extremely conservative standards that private schools attempt to enforce)


And the problem with the publc schooled is that they just regurgitate the same old myths and rubbish that all the other public schooled churn out. Don't need to use your brain. Hey, just quote an anecdote based on one experience of yours and use it to justify the whole world.

Look, I've met dozens of people who have no, as you say "respect for the feelings and personal boundaries of others". Not one of them was home-schooled. The facts are that there is no connection between home-schooling and anti-social behaviour, but the keystone of public school is the importance of spouting consensus myth rather than bothering with facts. Say what teacher wants to hear, not the truth.

Maybe the others you describe are just a bit too precious about their "feelings and personal boundaries". Maybe they just don't like somebody who has a different experience.


I knew a pair of sisters who had been home-schooled until they began attending my high school, and they nearly beat each other up in school and the teacher, though she tried her best, couldn't do anything about it.
I suppose you'd like to justify their behaviour on the grounds of their "having had a different experience" that didn't teach them that fighting (or at least fighting in public) was wrong?
I also know a home-schooled boy who became a womanizing drug addict at a fairly early age. Perhaps you'd also like to attribute his "differences" to his "having had a different personal experience that we don't understand"?



Last edited by Yupa on 29 May 2008, 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yupa
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29 May 2008, 1:44 pm

deadpanhead wrote:
Yupa wrote:
Thomas1138 wrote:
Do you dislike you're hypothetical children?


One thing I've learned from interacting with children who have been homeschooled is that most of them are, if not extremely clueless and withdrawn, generally people who have little to no respect for the feelings and personal boundaries of others, which can create quite more than a few problems for both themselves and others.
This, to me, is proof from my own observation that public schooling really is necessary (though I disagree with private schooling, due to the extremely conservative standards that private schools attempt to enforce)


I am seriously not trying to pick on you, but to keep things factual. You cannot substantiate on the basis of your opinion of the few homeschooled kids you've known that the entire endeavor is lacking. Hmm, "clueless and withdrawn"? Maybe they were homeschooled because they are Aspies or PDD, too! That is how it can appear. I happen to have a wonderful homeschooled college honor student who is so respectful of others' feelings and boundaries that her huge group of friends raised funds to fly her out to see them. I also know many more who are similarly kind and accomplished. I am certain i have known many more than you have and i assure you that their character and education as a group can stand nicely up to the public school crowd. Exactly how many homeschooled kids have you known? How well did you actually know them? Couldn't any of your opinion be attributed to typical Aspie misunderstanding? (The last one is rhetorical. Of course it's a yes.)

"I disagree with private schooling, due to the extremely conservative standards that private schools attempt to enforce" Do you want a teenager dictating to you what services should and should not be allowed in your country based on their own narrow and subjective opinion? Neither do i. If parents like those schools and are willing to pay not only for a public education through exorbitant taxes, but hundreds of dollars a month of their hard earned wages to do what they believe is best for their children, what business is it of anyone else?

Really, please stop speaking of things about which you do not know. I say this in your interest as well as everyone else's.


Private-schooled students are the ones more likely to look at me funny or give me a long lecture when I cuss or tell me by black band t-shirts, long hair, and leather boots are "scary" or "gross".
Both of these were two incidents in which the insidious influence of an elite upper-class private school showed its ugly face in the words of people who experienced it.
Not saying that private school or home-schooling are necessarily bad things, just that in a lot of cases they don't exactly prepare people to deal with the outside world in a very effective manner.



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29 May 2008, 1:49 pm

It should also be added that another reason I don't trust homeschooling is because parents often use it as a means of isolating their children as a means of indoctrinating their children with very disturbing (or at least very stupid) religious or political beliefs that are not backed up by fact.
Some examples of which are religious nuts who homeschool their children so that they can teach creationism or racists who homeschool their children to teach their children to hate minorities.
At least in public school, or even private school, you'll meet a larger amount of people with a wide variety of upbringings and a wide variety of beliefs, allowing you exposure to knowledge that closed-minded parents wouldn't necessarily want or allow their child to have.
While I don't deny that home-schooling can be a great tool for good, it's an unfortunate fact that it can also quite easily be abused.



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29 May 2008, 2:15 pm

Yupa wrote:
While I don't deny that home-schooling can be a great tool for good, it's an unfortunate fact that it can also quite easily be abused.

While I think your other posts in this thread are absolutely moronic, this right here is one of the reasons I don't like homeschooling.


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Yupa
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29 May 2008, 2:35 pm

deadpanhead wrote:
Do you want a teenager dictating to you what services should and should not be allowed in your country based on their own narrow and subjective opinion? Neither do i. .


There's a considerable difference between dictating rules and stating an opinion.



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29 May 2008, 2:53 pm

I've heard both sides of the story, and while I heard the kid HASN'T fully been diagnosed yet, and was extremely disruptive in class, it was a very poor way of handling it. 5 year old kids aren't mentally capable of understanding the procedure that they took, and it basically went to "mob rule". And then to make his own friend turn on him- lovely.

I emailed a link to the story, to my girlfriend, and told her "THIS is why I want our kids home-schooled". And one thing I must say...some good WILL come out of this for the kid: he'll learn the majority of NTs AREN'T tolerant. And please don't give me the "OH, DON'T BASH ALL NTS, SOME ARE GREAT PEOPLE!" I'm NOT bashing them all- but most of them sadly AREN'T very tolerant, and you wind up with THIS most of the time.

He'll learn to stop trusting people so much, and can take matters into his own hands. Good for him :)

And you all said you'd wished you were diagnosed at a younger age- I'm GLAD I was diagnosed when I was...again, in the early-mid '80s, no one even understood what Asperger's even WAS!! !! !!

Let me also go on record as saying, I then emailed the article to my girlfriend, and told her "THIS is why I want our kids home-schooled". Public schools are not prepared to handle "problem" children- the schools have an indoctrination agenda, and it doesn't work on everybody. Works on most, but not everybody. It's those few it doesn't work on that really benefit in the long run.



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29 May 2008, 3:30 pm

Yupa wrote:
It should also be added that another reason I don't trust homeschooling is because parents often use it as a means of isolating their children as a means of indoctrinating their children with very disturbing (or at least very stupid) religious or political beliefs that are not backed up by fact.
Some examples of which are religious nuts who homeschool their children so that they can teach creationism or racists who homeschool their children to teach their children to hate minorities.
At least in public school, or even private school, you'll meet a larger amount of people with a wide variety of upbringings and a wide variety of beliefs, allowing you exposure to knowledge that closed-minded parents wouldn't necessarily want or allow their child to have.
While I don't deny that home-schooling can be a great tool for good, it's an unfortunate fact that it can also quite easily be abused.


I agree.



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29 May 2008, 3:46 pm

Kalister1 wrote:
Yupa wrote:
It should also be added that another reason I don't trust homeschooling is because parents often use it as a means of isolating their children as a means of indoctrinating their children with very disturbing (or at least very stupid) religious or political beliefs that are not backed up by fact.
Some examples of which are religious nuts who homeschool their children so that they can teach creationism or racists who homeschool their children to teach their children to hate minorities.
At least in public school, or even private school, you'll meet a larger amount of people with a wide variety of upbringings and a wide variety of beliefs, allowing you exposure to knowledge that closed-minded parents wouldn't necessarily want or allow their child to have.
While I don't deny that home-schooling can be a great tool for good, it's an unfortunate fact that it can also quite easily be abused.


I agree.


And public school basically teaches kids to conform and hate their country, indoctrinating them into a Socialist agenda. Private school teaches kids to listen to authority, just because.

And even if that IS what happens in home schooling, remember- it's THEIR kids, they have the right to teach them whatever they want to.

Let me tell you- back in 11th grade, I was taught about the Great Depression- and I know the true cause of it, but public school isn't going to teach it to you because it was the very agenda of those running public school that landed the US into the Great Depression. So, I wrote down what happened for my answer- they didn't want to hear it. It was THEIR way, and that was it.

I want my kids to actually learn something- learn the truth, and learn to use their smarts, not just be told to repeat back what a teacher says. That's indoctrination and conformity. If my kids love something, I want them to be able to embrace it, not have to "put it away, cause now you have to learn from some ret*d teacher about things you don't care about, because they say so". Not cool in my book- sorry.



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29 May 2008, 4:23 pm

when I teach I like to use humor. But i've found I have to very careful doing that with children under 8. They believe everything I say just because I'm an adult.

Once a teacher brought in her first graders and said "that isn't Mr. Smith. Thats someone new." She left and I said "As you know I'm Mr. Smith." I was expecting laughter. The children just stared until one girl said "I thought you was a girl" and everyone agreed with her that yes I did look like a girl. It didn't dawn on them that I was a girl though because I had just told them I was Mr. Smith

If you take a vote in kindergarten, you can get pretty much all of the kids to agree to anything, even giving up playtime to take a hard test, by simply raising your hand when that option is given

And of course just as they aren't capable of understanding how to multiply, even if they memorized the multiplication tables, a kindergartener is capable of understanding what the voting that went on meant and how it affected their friend.

Also the really ridiculous thing behind this all is that a teacher has the right to throw any student out of her class, so there was no need for the vote in the first place.

When i was astudent teaching a boy was sometimes removed to the principals office (he had an undiagnosed behavior disorder). His mom was of the idea that he should be allowed to play on the computer when sent to the prinicpals office. The school was of the idea that his trips should be seen as a punishment so he'd want to stay in class rather than try to get sent to the office. The principal kept him from sleeping by loudly banging the drawers she needed to open and close, but she also made sure he saw as a friend to go to when he had a problem. He only sat in the prinicpals office for part of two days before it wasn't necessary to send him. He didn't do the work at the same time the class did, but he did the work. Once he sat there and made a book all about columbus while I was teaching and he read it to the class at the end of the day (it was complete with several facts on each page). The praise from his classmates encouraged him to do the classwork. I also solved the problem of his behavior during my lessons by making sure to call on him at least once for every 3 questions I asked. It was either that or he'd become bored/disechanted and revert to his behavior of throwing and destroying things



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29 May 2008, 4:26 pm

TheDoctor82 wrote:

And public school basically teaches kids to conform and hate their country, indoctrinating them into a Socialist agenda.


Bullcrap.


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29 May 2008, 4:40 pm

beau99 wrote:
Location: A cruel H*llhole called Earth.


OK, in your case your home planet. :lol:


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29 May 2008, 4:48 pm

beau99 wrote:
TheDoctor82 wrote:

And public school basically teaches kids to conform and hate their country, indoctrinating them into a Socialist agenda.


Bullcrap.


Yeah. Beau99 is a little off there :roll:



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29 May 2008, 5:03 pm

Hating my country? Socialist crap? That's where I learned "My Country tis of Thee" and marched, holding flags, and singing "You're a Grand Old Flag/Yankee Doodle Dandy" in the school auditorium. It's where I learned about our marvelous Constitution and the heroes of the American Revolution. It's where I learned about Pearl Harbor - when I visit there, now, 3000 miles away from my school, I still remember the things I learned there - which can sometimes seem almost like propaganda when I see what politicians do with my adult eyes.

Social life at school was hell on earth. But the learning part was simply wonderful.

I am a bit colored against homeschooling because everyone I've talked to that homeschools does it to keep their precious little white Christians from learning about "teh homos".


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29 May 2008, 5:08 pm

fabshelly wrote:
Hating my country? Socialist crap? That's where I learned "My Country tis of Thee" and marched, holding flags, and singing "You're a Grand Old Flag/Yankee Doodle Dandy" in the school auditorium. It's where I learned about our marvelous Constitution and the heroes of the American Revolution. It's where I learned about Pearl Harbor - when I visit there, now, 3000 miles away from my school, I still remember the things I learned there - which can sometimes seem almost like propaganda when I see what politicians do with my adult eyes.

Social life at school was hell on earth. But the learning part was simply wonderful.

I am a bit colored against homeschooling because everyone I've talked to that homeschools does it to keep their precious little white Christians from learning about "teh homos".


gasps teh homos



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29 May 2008, 5:16 pm

fabshelly wrote:
Hating my country? Socialist crap? That's where I learned "My Country tis of Thee" and marched, holding flags, and singing "You're a Grand Old Flag/Yankee Doodle Dandy" in the school auditorium. It's where I learned about our marvelous Constitution and the heroes of the American Revolution. It's where I learned about Pearl Harbor - when I visit there, now, 3000 miles away from my school, I still remember the things I learned there - which can sometimes seem almost like propaganda when I see what politicians do with my adult eyes.

Social life at school was hell on earth. But the learning part was simply wonderful.

I am a bit colored against homeschooling because everyone I've talked to that homeschools does it to keep their precious little white Christians from learning about "teh homos".


If that's why they do it, it is their rights because it is their kids. What can't be argued is how well the average homeschooled kid outperforms the average public school kid academically. Think of the social hell on earth you'd have been spared had you been homeschooled.

Socialist or patriotic, the agenda the government schools push is irrelevant. It is what they fail to teach that matters, critical thinking... as George Carlin put in his eloquent monologue, that goes against the interests of the country's real owners (the big wealthy businesses that own all the media, the judges, and the politicians). All they want is obedient workers, just smart enough to run the machines, and just dumb enough not to realize how bad they are getting f***ed by a system that threw them overboard 30 years ago.

Today's public schools are more like prisons than prisons. At least convicted prisoners get recess. And they don't get their arms broken for just dropping a piece of cake. Or arrested for putting their heads down when exhausted, or having possession of dangerous drugs like aspirin. I'm not exaggerating or making any of that up... google it, and "zero tolerance."

I have zero tolerance for kids being forced to go to concentration camps posing as schools. That is the real reason for homeschooling.


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