[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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No, I could have split that into two posts; I replyed to you when I was already posting an unrelated video.

Lying liar lies about the existence of churches in Gaza. Hasbara requires convincing people to ignore reality.

It's unclear to me whether she personally, knowingly is lying, or whether she just believes lies she has been told about there being "no Christians in Gaza."

Be that as it may, there are three churches in Gaza (Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Baptist), whose existence is very well documented. The Greek Orthodox church is one of the oldest churches in the world, and Israel has already gotten some flak for damaging that church. (See my thread on Palestinian Christians.)

Hopefully, by killing the two Catholic women, Israel has awakened a sleeping giant -- the worldwide Roman Catholic Church. Hopefully the Pope can now greatly add to the international pressure on Israel to end their attack -- or, at the very least, become a lot more restrained and narrowly targeted in how they do things.

Oh yes, because Catholics don’t have a long historical record of killing people of different faiths or belief systems.. so, naturally the Catholic leader bean Pope is totes the guy to tell Israel to knock it off. I’m sure what would be well received and result in a voluntary ceasefire.

Poignant ...but if the Pope condemns Israel ..there are some extremely Catholic biased countries in South America .
And at least one has the largest Military in the World , per CIA world fact book . But have never known Rome to be involved in any Wars .

What are you talking about?

The largest military on earth is that of China, with India, and the US, close behind. No South American nation is even in the top ten military powers.

And the Pope is not asking his flock to go to war against Israel anyway.

yes, maybe my info from the CIA world fact book is from a 10 year old copy of that report ....

You must have read it wrong. The pecking order of military power hasnt changed that much in ten years.

There was never a time in history in which any Latin American country was in the top ten of military powers. Certainly not ten years ago.

Though FUN FACT...for a few weeks in 1914 Argentina did have the world's one biggest battleship!

Argentina and Brazil were in an arms race. So Argentina hired a Liverpool shipyard to build an insanely designed ship with seven main dual turrets of 12 inch guns (considered too unsafe a design for the Brits to build for themselves) making "the Rio De Janiero" the biggest warship in the world capable of firing the heaviest broadsides in the world at the time.

But suddenly Argentina ran out of money and couldnt pay its bills, and the almost complete ship was canceled. But then the Ottoman Empire of Turkey bought the same ship...and construction was continued. Renamed the "Sultan Osman I" for the Turkish Navy

But just as the ship was ready to be launched...the First World War broke out...the Ottoman Turks entered the war on the side of Germany. So the British navy seized control of the ship, renamed it the "HMS Agincourt" and put into the service of the British Navy. So the ship changed name and nationality three times before it was launched.

Despite its weird design it managed to fire several full broadsides at the battle of Jutland in 1916 without breaking its back. Though still a major warship, by that time it was no longer a record breaker. Both the Brits and the Germans had bigger battleships with fewer but bigger guns that could throw more weight of shells.

I haven’t fact checked any of this, but if true it’s pretty deplorable and Sounds Like a list of highly illegal war crimes:



War is war and all that, but there are reasons there are rules of engagement and acts considered war crimes. People responsible should not pass go nor collect $200 on their way straight to The Hague.

Gawd.. i sure wish our US political leaders would follow through with the actual wishes of the people .
The above report/ post regarding this stuff is just absolutely sickening .
The Israeli leadership, does not need to drag the name of the Israeli people through the dirt ......
Then every Jewish person will align themselves with the Great State of Israel. These Jewish Centers throughout the USA m ( simon Weissenthal) and the commenoritive monuments
With non- profit status . Am getting the feeling . That they should not be there anymore . Why commemorate a people who have committed such atrocities.***.." In the Modern Age of mankind" *** And NO, i do not consider myself an anti semite or Jew .. But at this rate , i could easily be mistaken for one .
I could only hope the above posting by Goldfish21 with its link to that Info. is mistaken

Yes. Even if those tales reported by Goldfish arent true things like that must be happening. And we know that thousands of Palestinian civilians have died from bombing so far. So even if IDF ground forces arent doing face-to-face murders Israel is killing more than the number that died in the HAMAS attacks from long distance artillery and bombing from the air.

But...What would you do if you were in Israel's shoes?

Myself. I would probably first admit to myself (if not publicly) that HAMAS got the drop on us THIS time, and won this round. But still try to get the hostages back.But leave the destruction of HAMAS for another day. To get the hostages back offer to do...what you have no choice but to do ANYWAY...which is to have a ceasefire.

Israel cant destroy HAMAS in the one knockout punch campaign that its attemping. That cant kill off every terrorists, and even if they could do that that would kill ten times as many civilians and create more future terrorists than the ones they are killing or capturing now. So they have no choice but to hit the pause button on the war.

So...offer to do just that...for the price of HAMAS returning the hostages.

HAMAS would loose the hostages as bargaining chips, but it would gain a ceasefire...so there would little need to bargain. So they might agree to it.

Then both sides would settle in. Israel occupying the north of Gaza. Leaving the south to HAMAS by default.

Then both sides, and the world community, would take it from there.

Glad to know I'm not alone in thinking this. Heck, last week I felt mildly uncomfortable seeing some of the skyscrapers here in Buffalo lit up blue and white for the first and last night of Hanukah

No, not "every" Jewish person. There do exist Jews who either strongly criticize the Israeli government or reject Zionism altogether, and there are signs that this may be a growing trend among the more progressive-minded Jewish young people.

Progressive Jewish groups that reject Zionism include:

- Jewish Voice for Peace
- Jews for Racial & Economic Justice
- IfNotNow

According to the description of a Jewish Currents podcast, A Surge in American Jewish Left Organizing, published on October 31 of this year:


There also exist some ultra-Orthodox groups that reject Zionism, such as Neturei Karta, but they've shrunk down to a tiny fringe as far as I can tell. According to What is Neturei Karta, the Orthodox group at all the pro-Palestinian protests?, Forward, November 22, 2023:


Neturei Karta represents a very small faction that seems to be shrinking. And, alas, even the progressive anti-Zionist Jewish groups still represent only a very small fraction of American Jews.

But the progressive groups do seem to be growing, at least among American Jewish young people. Hopefully they will continue to grow.

Here is a another podcast, this one advising progressive anti-Zionist Jewish young people on how to talk to their families.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 21 Dec 2023, 5:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I would strongly favor keeping the memorials. The Holocaust should be remembered. But the question is what lessons should be learned from it.

The lesson should be that no one, including Israel, should be allowed to commit genocide or ethnic cleansing.

The lesson should NOT be that Israel should be allowed to kill as many Palestinians as it wants to, or oppress Palestinians as much as it wants to, out of a short-sighted belief that that's the way to keep Israeli Jews safe.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 21 Dec 2023, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It looks to me like a few posts in this thread (and elsewhere on WP recently) are veering towards anti-Jewish bigotry. Besides being against Wrong Planet rules, that's just not helpful, at all. It only fuels the fear that fuels Jewish Zionism and Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians, in the first place.

IMO this topic needs to be a discussed in such a way that both the few Jews here and any Palestinians who might show up here (there have been a few in the past) can feel welcome. And that's how we should aim to discuss it wherever we may happen to talk about it, not just here on WP.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/22/ ... XzBfMF8wXw