[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.
ASPartOfMe
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IDF had no plan for responding to a Hamas attack of October 7’s magnitude – NY Times
The investigative report was based on interviews with current and former soldiers, officers and officials, some of whom spoke anonymously.
“There was no defense plan for a surprise attack,” Amir Avivi, a former deputy head of the Gaza Division, told the paper, while former national security adviser Yaakov Amidror added: “The army does not prepare itself for things it thinks are impossible.”
The New York Times report paints a picture of a military that for too long on the day failed to understand the scale of the attack, sending teams that were ill-equipped to deal with a mass assault. As the military grappled with the unfathomable situation playing out in southern Israel, the first troop deployment occurred at 7:43 a.m. — over an hour into the Hamas invasion — when orders were issued for all emergency forces to move south.
The report also highlighted Hamas’s attack on the IDF’s Gaza Division base at Re’im as key to the assault’s success. With gunmen raiding the base, the besieged soldiers and commanders found themselves trying to defend it instead of leading the larger combat effort.
Maj. Gen. (res.) Yom Tov Samia, a former head of the military’s Southern Command, decried the untenable concentration of the division command as well as the command centers for both Gaza brigades at the same base, meaning that a single effective assault by Hamas terrorists crippled the entire command structure responsible for coordinating all military activity in the region.
The report noted that military intelligence was aware of a long-time Hamas goal to take out this central base, but the IDF did not believe the terror group was capable of mounting such an effort.
Lacking clear directives or orders, many units as well as reservist soldiers resorted to using TV news and apps such as WhatsApp and Telegram to glean information on targets and locations in need of assistance.
The horrific situation in the south brought a rare order from the head of the Shin Bet, Israel’s domestic security agency, at 9 a.m. in which he told “all combat-trained, weapons-carrying employees to go south.”
The report noted that adding to the lack of preparedness along the Gaza border, two commando companies of over 100 soldiers had been moved to the West Bank on October 5, during the Jewish holiday of Sukkot.
“In practice, there wasn’t the right defensive preparation, no practice, and no equipping and building strength for such an operation,” Maj. Gen. Samia told The New York Times.
Other interviewees said that the only protocols in place for mobilization in the advent of an incursion were aimed at deployment within 24 hours, under the assumption that troops would be forewarned through military intelligence.
Many soldiers rushed south of their own volition, among them Brig. Gen. Barak Hiram, head of the 99th Infantry Division, who told Israeli media that he received messages from soldiers, including, “Come save us,” “Send the army, quickly, they are killing us,” and “Sorry we’re turning to you, we’re already out of weapons.” Many soldiers left their homes relatively lightly armed, unprepared for the full-on battle that awaited them in the south.
Even at the elite Maglan commando unit, a mere 25 minutes from Gaza, the Times was told there were no “concrete missions,” with troops simply told to “just take a gun” and “save people.”
The Jewish holiday of Sukkot also added to the downgrade in preparedness. While there were three infantry battalions and one tank battalion positioned along Gaza’s border, stated the report, a senior military officer estimated that perhaps half of the 1,500 soldiers were away.
For those forces heading south, further significant delays were caused by Hamas’s ability to swiftly take control of highways in the region and set up ambushes on the key roads leading south, attacking troops as they arrived and causing forces to halt their advance toward communities in need.
The military’s performance since it began its offensive in Gaza has been generally praised in Israel, with fewer losses than initially anticipated while facing Hamas’s long-prepared deadly urban battlefield within Gaza’s cities, with their vast arrays of tunnels, booby-trapped buildings and ambush traps. Israel has racked up significant military achievements in the two-month ground offensive so far.
But the country is widely expected to launch a massive investigation into the intelligence, policy and operational failures that enabled October 7’s atrocities to occur when the war in Gaza concludes.
Protesters in Tel Aviv take aim at Netanyahu government after 12 weeks of war
In one of the first major, explicitly anti-government protests since the war began on October 7, demonstrators for “elections now” flocked to the central Tel Aviv square many bearing banners that were highly antagonistic toward Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his hardline coalition, as well as the war in Gaza.
“The cry of mothers: Get our soldiers out of Gaza now,” read one banner, while another called for “A diplomatic agreement.” Yet another protester held a banner declaring “Israel will not survive if we don’t bring him down.”
Down the road from Habima, families and other supporters gathered for an 11th straight week at the renamed Hostages’ Square outside the Tel Aviv Art Museum to call for the release of those being held in Gaza. Despite increasingly vocal criticism of the government over the lack of an agreement for their release, organizers have taken pains to keep the demonstrations apolitical.
At Saturday’s protest in Tel Aviv, numerous demonstrators brought Israeli flags from the anti-judicial overhaul movement of the pre-October 7 era, lending the demonstration a distinct anti-government feel that has been absent from most major demonstrations since the atrocities committed by Hamas almost three months ago.
Guy Ginat, a protester from Rehovot, held a banner in English with the words “You bring us death and say ‘that’s life,’” referencing a remark made by Netanyahu last month after an an armed civilian who stopped a deadly terror attack in Jerusalem was mistakenly shot dead by a soldier
The protest was organized by several groups, including the anti-government protest organization Hofshi Israel as well as some bereaved families from the current war.
Among the speakers were Ofri Zur, whose brother Amir Zur was killed during the Hamas-led assault on Kibbutz Kfar Aza, and Maj. Gen. (res.) Guy Tzur, the former head of the IDF Southern Command, while the event was hosted by Gal Pihovitz, the mother of a combat soldier currently fighting in Gaza.
A central exhibition at Habima Square commemorated the victims of the October 7 atrocities and said, “Not in vain, we promise.”
Despite the fact that many of the protesters in the heart of liberal, progressive Tel Aviv did not appear particularly enthusiastic about any potential winners of the election they were calling for, those who spoke with this reporter nevertheless felt that the likely winners would be an improvement on the current government.
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( Side Note)
And am just imagining all the people , whom are jewish and are big in the media empire of which , i have been made aware of many ,are probably giving ""movie extras""
that are out of work .. jobs ..To go to locations outside of US gov. buildings to stand around as protesters ?
I do not know of any Jewish people personally , that I have known over the years claim, that they are willing to stand around outside all day of a building . With no home amenities , Or big screen TV or frig, ...Even Israelis that I have know,whom have become Americanized . Never have mentioned or demostrated any interest in personally doing protests . Personally have been part of several civil rights protests in this country. .. .! , So who are the people supporting these activities in Palestine ? in the USA ? ..$orry just frustrated
@ Mona Pereth, con: her response to my post . As to whether , i have evidence of such activities regarding people
being hired as protestors / picketers ..? Please do not take my posts apart and attack them and qoute them out of context .
And by the way , do have immediate family members , whom are Screen Actor Guild members .
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Makes me glad I’m in such a sparsely populated country. If we ever have that much crazy anywhere in the populated South all we have to do is pack up and roll out and go homestead somewhere in the snowy North and just ignore all the crazies doing their crazy things. Could get satellite internet and stay up to date on things, OR not and just live an off grid life with no worries about whatever the crazies are or are not doing. Plenty of space for that.
Perhaps part of the reason for all this conflict elsewhere is population density and lack of space between people who cannot ever get along. If I lived anywhere in a region like that it would be my goal to gtfo and head to Canada. I’d rather work Very Hard and be poor in a major population centre Or live in the middle of f*****g nowhere in the snow than deal with all that BS. It’s little wonder there’s such a long waiting list to get into Canada.
The US went through such phase historically; progressive North vs backward Southern Confederate filled with crazy religious dogma.
Except in our case, the backward Southern Hezbollah state is far stronger militarily.
I don’t think South Koreans can coexist with North Koreans anymore in a same democratic nation; despite them being the same people, sharing same ancient history and language.
It would take generations of “de-brainwashing” of Northerns perhaps.
In some cases, partition is really the best way possible.
What you're saying about Korea is laughable.
If you could wave a magic wand and make the Kim Regime vanish, leaving the North with No government, and forcing the Seoul govt of the south to annex the North...the entire population of the North would be "de-programmed" in one heartbeat instantly...for the simple reason that everyone in the north is now starving...and its the South (with the help of the world community) that would be feeding them and keeping them alive. And once the common Northerner recovers from starvation they would have had so much contact with real outsiders (and would see all of the consumer stuff these outsiders have)that they would all be fanatically pro western. Why wouldnt they? Why would they join a resistence? So they could return to poverty and starvation?
Alternatively...lets postulate a more realistic scenario. Instead of the Norks just magically surrendering their country to the South...lets say that Kim is overthrown from within his own ruling elite by a faction who are not pro South Korean, but are pro Chinese, and seek closer ties to China, and seek to emulate China as a develpment model?
Instead hating the whole outside world with this Juche creed, they stay in the Communist Bloc mode, but imitate China by remaining authoritarian, BUT embracing capitalism, AND embracing foreign investment (including investment from South Korea).
In that scenario the North becomes a capitalist power house like China, and gradually become like China's coastal provinces...an affluent middle class society with democratic leanings...much like Taiwan, and much like South Korea, are now. The old brainwashing from the old Kim regime would be long gone. And they might well voluntarily merge with the South as seamlessly as East German has merged with West Germany.
As your anecdote shows there are idiots on both sides in this conflict. I think we have all at some point met similar fanatics on the Israeli side. I think the solution to this conflict is to brake the cycle of "revenge" by taking away the power from the feuding parts and hand it over to the UN. This means that the US has to step down and let justice has its way. With boots on the ground UN could prevent the Palestinians from throwing stones or making more serious attacks against the Israelis while simultaneously stop the Israeli harresements, shootings of civivilian Palestinians, collective punishment and the destruction of water supplies etc.
I don't think Abdul would appreciate being called an idiot. Look at it from his point of view. The Palestinians used to live in what is now the Israeli state. Israel covers some 8,550 square miles. The Palestinians were forced into Gaza. Gaza is a tiny strip of land that comprises some 139 square miles. The population density was such that Palestinian refugees flocked to other countries, notably Lebanon, where even today, they remain in refugee camps.
If a two state solution were to be adopted, how will the land in Gaza be allocated? Do the Palestinians who lost their land have any right to property in Gaza? Prior to the formation of Israel, the average Palestinian worked in agriculture or raised animals like goats or camels. Given how many Palestinians there are and how very small Gaza is, there is no way that these people could return to their agricultural pursuits.
Prior to the current conflict, 81.5% of the Palestinians in Gaza lived in poverty. Given how much destruction has occurred and how many people have been displaced, the percentage will likely increase. Unemployment in 2021 was 47%. Youth unemployment was 67%.
While the two state solution may seem convenient to non-Palestinians, it's hard to see how this benefits the Palestinians.
While I would like to believe that the vast majority of Palestinians want to live in peace, I also believe that people who have nothing, have nothing to lose by joining anti-Israeli groups like Hamas or Hezbollah.
I remember living in the Middle East while U.S. troops in occupied Iraq were the targets of suicide bombers. A senior U.S. military officer who was being interviewed by CNN said one of the most appallingly stupid things that I have had ever heard.
He claimed, without any factual support, that at some point, the terrorists would run out of volunteers to be suicide bombers. Not true.
The families of suicide bombers were paid death benefits of $25,000. To people whose monthly income averages $250, this was a veritable fortune.
You may have heard of the old Babylonian quote, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."
Think Hatfields and McCoys. From 1863 to 1891, these families who resided in West Virginia and Kentucky killed each other because of a family feud. Each death called for blood retribution.
It's pretty much the same with the Palestinians. Many of the "collateral damage" deaths that have been caused by the Israelis as they target Hamas, is likely radicalizing more Palestinians. I am not saying that all Palestinians will be radicalized, but from a statistical point of view, a number of them will be.
In a country with such a high poverty rate, Hamas may be the "only game in town" for many unemployed Palestinians. This group earns about $450 million annually from taxes levied in Gaza as well as worldwide business interests that include charitable contributions. It's likely that as with Hezbollah, they are receiving Iranian funding.
As bad as things were in Gaza before the current conflict began, things will be even worse now. An estimated 100,000 buildings have either been destroyed or damaged. What little infrastructure there was has likely also been damaged. Who will pay for the cost of rebuilding?
Although I spent 8 years in the Middle East, I don't claim to have any great amount of wisdom. Having said this, I don't think the two state solution will work. I do think that poverty, despair, hatred, and resentment are all fertile breeding grounds for tomorrow's terrorists.
In order for peace to prevail, I think people have to have some hope for the future; that their lives and the lives of their children will be better tomorrow than it is today. As it is, the vast majority of the Palestinians in Gaza are mired in a never ending cycle of poverty.
This is NOT by the way, a justification for what Hamas did. Rape, torture, and murder cannot ever be justified.
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Have any of these family members, or any other specific SAG members whom you or they personally know, actually been hired by anyone as (fake) protesters? If so, by whom?
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[...]
The families of suicide bombers were paid death benefits of $25,000. To people whose monthly income averages $250, this was a veritable fortune.
[...]
In a country with such a high poverty rate, Hamas may be the "only game in town" for many unemployed Palestinians. This group earns about $450 million annually from taxes levied in Gaza as well as worldwide business interests that include charitable contributions. It's likely that as with Hezbollah, they are receiving Iranian funding.
As bad as things were in Gaza before the current conflict began, things will be even worse now. An estimated 100,000 buildings have either been destroyed or damaged. What little infrastructure there was has likely also been damaged. Who will pay for the cost of rebuilding?
Although I spent 8 years in the Middle East, I don't claim to have any great amount of wisdom. Having said this, I don't think the two state solution will work. I do think that poverty, despair, hatred, and resentment are all fertile breeding grounds for tomorrow's terrorists.
In order for peace to prevail, I think people have to have some hope for the future; that their lives and the lives of their children will be better tomorrow than it is today. As it is, the vast majority of the Palestinians in Gaza are mired in a never ending cycle of poverty.
Very important points here. Whatever the solution turns out to be, it will need to involve somehow lifting the vast majority of Palestinians out of poverty.
(See my separate thread Palestine/Israel: 2-state solution vs. 1 binational state?.)
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The_Face_of_Boo
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This conference on this book was held on 15th March, 2005. The day after the biggest human protest in Lebanon which led to the series of events to end the Syrian occupation. For those who don’t know, the 14th March massive protest was a response against the Hezbollah’s 8th March 2005 massive gathering for supporting the Syrian occupation. From those two massive protest the *cultural* split started to appear, giving birth to two political alliances named after these 2 dates.
After the Syrian withdrawal, I would say the 14th March leaders made the mistake of thinking they can “Lebanize” Hezbollah, all it brought is more assassinations and violence from them (the Hezbollah). You just can’t tame scorpion. We should had realized back then that the fact they wanted for the Syrian presence to go on then their identity lies elsewhere.
One of the book’s authors, Barbara Newman, is very visionary in Mideast politics, she was so spot on Hezbollah, this is a very interesting part of the conference I uploaded to youtube. Nothing she said there back then has changed ever since.
This is full video of the conference https://www.c-span.org/video/?186061-1/ ... terrorists
Why was the book banned?
Because Hezbollah is part of the government and they don’t like to be called terrorists.
The_Face_of_Boo
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Meanwhile yesterday in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia:
https://x.com/rawadsleiman_/status/1741 ... 17150?s=46
https://x.com/ezkh28/status/1741777995923079381?s=46
Note that 5+ years ago there was no concept of « New Year’s Eve » in Saudi Arabia.
Apparently the crown prince is convinced that the whole 7th October was an Iranian plot against his peace negotiations (which is true); so he is not giving a f**k; and not showing any remorse and won’t halt in showing off his recent social reforms.
I understand the Saudi anger, after all, it is the top Arab donor for Gaza and 2nd worldwide after the US. Apparently Hamas used most of the money to buy weapons and build war tunnels instead of developing the city and building… civilian shelters.
https://www.statista.com/chart/12574/th ... estinians/
Does UNRWA money go to governments? Shouldn't it go directly to administration of refugee camps?
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The_Face_of_Boo
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Often the ruling powers on the ground put their hands on the boxes and sell them.
And if it’s cash, it evaporates fast.
That's a big problem, right there. Any ideas on how it could be solved? Like maybe UNRWA could have its own bank?
Also I would be interested in your comments, in the relevant thread, on the video I posted here.
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ASPartOfMe
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Often the ruling powers on the ground put their hands on the boxes and sell them.
And if it’s cash, it evaporates fast.
This problem makes for both disingenuous and legitimate arguments against opening up safe corridors and pauses in order to do that. Israelis argue that lifting the siege means Hamas does not starve while the residence of Gaza still starve. Hamas retains both the ability to shoot at us and pummel us in the “propaganda war”. Lose Lose for us.
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“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
And responded too..! the original post had certain lines removed that .. made my post appear as a out of context situation / sentences , imho ! , reading the original posting including exclaimation points and question marks , might have allowed her better understanding of what was written . And having relatives in the entertainment industry . Might have allowed some understanding of information that was shared with me . From immediate relatives .
Regarding peoples involved in some protests .
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My opinions here are only my own.. and others , i know of that do not necessarily participate in this Wrong Planet , and if apologies are in order , if , i have offended anyone by expressing them. then please consider yourself apologized to : of behalf of myself .....
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I read your entire original post. I quoted only the specific parts I was responding to.
Regarding peoples involved in some protests .
Again, are you claiming to know people who were hired? If so, to make sense of your claim, it would be helpful if you could tell me the names of the specific organizations that hired them, and with what job titles.
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