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Kalister1
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29 May 2008, 5:22 pm

LoveableNerd wrote:
fabshelly wrote:
Hating my country? Socialist crap? That's where I learned "My Country tis of Thee" and marched, holding flags, and singing "You're a Grand Old Flag/Yankee Doodle Dandy" in the school auditorium. It's where I learned about our marvelous Constitution and the heroes of the American Revolution. It's where I learned about Pearl Harbor - when I visit there, now, 3000 miles away from my school, I still remember the things I learned there - which can sometimes seem almost like propaganda when I see what politicians do with my adult eyes.

Social life at school was hell on earth. But the learning part was simply wonderful.

I am a bit colored against homeschooling because everyone I've talked to that homeschools does it to keep their precious little white Christians from learning about "teh homos".


If that's why they do it, it is their rights because it is their kids. What can't be argued is how well the average homeschooled kid outperforms the average public school kid academically. Think of the social hell on earth you'd have been spared had you been homeschooled.

Socialist or patriotic, the agenda the government schools push is irrelevant. It is what they fail to teach that matters, critical thinking... as George Carlin put in his eloquent monologue, that goes against the interests of the country's real owners (the big wealthy businesses that own all the media, the judges, and the politicians). All they want is obedient workers, just smart enough to run the machines, and just dumb enough not to realize how bad they are getting f***ed by a system that threw them overboard 30 years ago.

Today's public schools are more like prisons than prisons. At least convicted prisoners get recess. And they don't get their arms broken for just dropping a piece of cake. Or arrested for putting their heads down when exhausted, or having possession of dangerous drugs like aspirin. I'm not exaggerating or making any of that up... google it, and "zero tolerance."

I have zero tolerance for kids being forced to go to concentration camps posing as schools. That is the real reason for homeschooling.


We should just abolish high school and send kids to community college.

Thats if they want to continue their education.



LoveableNerd
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29 May 2008, 5:31 pm

Kalister1 wrote:
LoveableNerd wrote:
fabshelly wrote:
Hating my country? Socialist crap? That's where I learned "My Country tis of Thee" and marched, holding flags, and singing "You're a Grand Old Flag/Yankee Doodle Dandy" in the school auditorium. It's where I learned about our marvelous Constitution and the heroes of the American Revolution. It's where I learned about Pearl Harbor - when I visit there, now, 3000 miles away from my school, I still remember the things I learned there - which can sometimes seem almost like propaganda when I see what politicians do with my adult eyes.

Social life at school was hell on earth. But the learning part was simply wonderful.

I am a bit colored against homeschooling because everyone I've talked to that homeschools does it to keep their precious little white Christians from learning about "teh homos".


If that's why they do it, it is their rights because it is their kids. What can't be argued is how well the average homeschooled kid outperforms the average public school kid academically. Think of the social hell on earth you'd have been spared had you been homeschooled.

Socialist or patriotic, the agenda the government schools push is irrelevant. It is what they fail to teach that matters, critical thinking... as George Carlin put in his eloquent monologue, that goes against the interests of the country's real owners (the big wealthy businesses that own all the media, the judges, and the politicians). All they want is obedient workers, just smart enough to run the machines, and just dumb enough not to realize how bad they are getting f***ed by a system that threw them overboard 30 years ago.

Today's public schools are more like prisons than prisons. At least convicted prisoners get recess. And they don't get their arms broken for just dropping a piece of cake. Or arrested for putting their heads down when exhausted, or having possession of dangerous drugs like aspirin. I'm not exaggerating or making any of that up... google it, and "zero tolerance."

I have zero tolerance for kids being forced to go to concentration camps posing as schools. That is the real reason for homeschooling.


We should just abolish high school and send kids to community college.

Thats if they want to continue their education.


I have a friend who dropped out when he turned 16, got his GED and went on to college a year ahead of his peers. He has a masters degree now and is doing quite well as the lead developer at a good sized regional IT firm.

For aspies, I think the unschooling approach is better than standard curriculum based homeschooling. I think we would get the most out of that. I know I would have, and I think it could do wonders for the poor excommunicated 5 year old who is the subject of this original thread. Think about it, would AS cause any learning difficulties whatsoever if it weren't for the forced, regulated nature of the public school system? Social problems, sure? But learning? No way. We'd excel. We just don't respond too well to the herd-like-cattle approach.


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Triangular_Trees
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29 May 2008, 5:39 pm

community college course were far easier than my high school courses - I took a few starting in 9th grade. They barely required any effort at all to get A's in. The high school texts were harder and the tests and projects more intense



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29 May 2008, 6:43 pm

Yupa wrote:
deadpanhead wrote:
Yupa wrote:
Thomas1138 wrote:
Do you dislike you're hypothetical children?


One thing I've learned from interacting with children who have been homeschooled is that most of them are, if not extremely clueless and withdrawn, generally people who have little to no respect for the feelings and personal boundaries of others, which can create quite more than a few problems for both themselves and others.
This, to me, is proof from my own observation that public schooling really is necessary (though I disagree with private schooling, due to the extremely conservative standards that private schools attempt to enforce)


I am seriously not trying to pick on you, but to keep things factual. You cannot substantiate on the basis of your opinion of the few homeschooled kids you've known that the entire endeavor is lacking. Hmm, "clueless and withdrawn"? Maybe they were homeschooled because they are Aspies or PDD, too! That is how it can appear. I happen to have a wonderful homeschooled college honor student who is so respectful of others' feelings and boundaries that her huge group of friends raised funds to fly her out to see them. I also know many more who are similarly kind and accomplished. I am certain i have known many more than you have and i assure you that their character and education as a group can stand nicely up to the public school crowd. Exactly how many homeschooled kids have you known? How well did you actually know them? Couldn't any of your opinion be attributed to typical Aspie misunderstanding? (The last one is rhetorical. Of course it's a yes.)

"I disagree with private schooling, due to the extremely conservative standards that private schools attempt to enforce" Do you want a teenager dictating to you what services should and should not be allowed in your country based on their own narrow and subjective opinion? Neither do i. If parents like those schools and are willing to pay not only for a public education through exorbitant taxes, but hundreds of dollars a month of their hard earned wages to do what they believe is best for their children, what business is it of anyone else?

Really, please stop speaking of things about which you do not know. I say this in your interest as well as everyone else's.


Private-schooled students are the ones more likely to look at me funny or give me a long lecture when I cuss or tell me by black band t-shirts, long hair, and leather boots are "scary" or "gross".
Both of these were two incidents in which the insidious influence of an elite upper-class private school showed its ugly face in the words of people who experienced it.
Not saying that private school or home-schooling are necessarily bad things, just that in a lot of cases they don't exactly prepare people to deal with the outside world in a very effective manner.


Black t-shirts.. long hair... leather boots... I can state clearly that I have never been assaulted or abused by anyone from a "private" or homeschool education for these reasons. However, I can and have witnessed in court over assaults occuring because of these reasons, by people who have never been homeschooled or attended a private school in their lives. People have DIED for these reasons, and the perpetrators could not even define the difference between public, private, and home school if you paid them to know. If anything, public schools (in the colonial sense) teach you that real life is full of a***holes, and it should be avoided at all costs.


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29 May 2008, 7:17 pm

Real life is full of a***holes because we cannot all be homeschooled and suckled by our mothers until age 13.



1Oryx2
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29 May 2008, 8:54 pm

Wow, that teacher sounds like a real nut.

I really would never leave any child under her care....EVER.

And what's this about it not qualifying as emotional trauma? How's being told all the things your classmates hate about you to your face and being kicked out of the class not traumatizing? I mean, really? That kid is going to grow up with such a stigma.

And for Pete’s sake! He’s in kindergarten! How many kindergarteners do you know who are obedient, calm and well behaved?

This is cruel and disturbed. I think the school should issue a written apology to the family and the teacher fired.



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30 May 2008, 4:31 am

Yupa wrote:
It should also be added that another reason I don't trust homeschooling is because parents often use it as a means of isolating their children as a means of indoctrinating their children with very disturbing (or at least very stupid) religious or political beliefs that are not backed up by fact.


I don't trust state school for exactly the same reason. Most stupid religious ideas and political beliefs you can think of are (or were) being taught in state school.

Yupa wrote:
Some examples of which are religious nuts who homeschool their children so that they can teach creationism or racists who homeschool their children to teach their children to hate minorities.


Again, the only problem with what you say is that the facts don't back it up. The vast majority of religious nuts and ALL racists go through state school.

I went to a Catholic state school where religious indoctrination was more important than academic success. Every day we were lectured on the hellfire and brimstone that awaited us if we deviated from the Catholic bible interpretation. Bluntly, the teachers conducted systematic child abuse in the name of religion and upholding the ideals of the state. This was a STATE school on the 1970's and is more or less the same now.


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30 May 2008, 4:45 am

slowmutant wrote:
Real life is full of a***holes because we cannot all be homeschooled and suckled by our mothers until age 13.


You assume that one and the other go hand in hand I see. I take it that you feel a learning environment is only sound when accompanied by scruffy herds of inbred underachieving monkeys with no greater interest in life than happy-slapping and consumer bling then? That in some way this enforced socialisation is a constructive thing?

And breast milk is good for you.... :P


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Yupa
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30 May 2008, 8:08 am

1Oryx2 wrote:
And what's this about it not qualifying as emotional trauma?

I don't know about you, but I wasn't exactly well-developed enough at that age to percieve anything as traumatic, emotionally or otherwise...



Yupa
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30 May 2008, 8:09 am

Macbeth wrote:
scruffy herds of inbred underachieving monkeys with no greater interest in life than happy-slapping and consumer bling then?


And exactly who are you referring to?



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30 May 2008, 8:11 am

I, for one, am amused by the teacher's rather radical approach to the situation. I suppose if anything it is a Reductio Ad Absurdum on the whole Democracy situation. Kids don't know the purpose behind classroom learning any more than the average person knows how a country should and can be run. The whole situation is absurd.

On the bright side though, the kid is probably better off not being in that class anyway.

.



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30 May 2008, 9:10 am

Breast milk is good for you, but our dietary needs change as we move past infancy. As we grow up, the maternal teat is no longer nature's perfect food. The teeth coming in usually means it's time to chew some solid food. And to say goodbye to diapers.

How many of our Aspie heroes were too precious for public schooling? Temple Grandin has a doctorate. She went to a big scary university and studied with all the other scruff-monkeys for years to get where she is today.

What are these overly precious homeschooled kids supposed to do about university? Generally speaking, you need some kind of secondary school diploma to be accepted. Mom & Dad are not equipped to be a hermetically sealed university campus for but one overly precious student who drinks from a sippy cup at age 21.



ouinon
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30 May 2008, 9:14 am

SotiCoto wrote:
It is a Reductio Ad Absurdum on the whole Democracy situation. Kids don't know the purpose behind classroom learning any more than the average person knows how a country should and can be run.

:lol:
Quote:
On the bright side, the kid is probably better off not being in that class anyway.

Yes. Perhaps the mother will try homeschooling instead, with its very different political dynamics, now that she has seen naked democracy at work on her own child's prospects in life. :wink: :)

:study:



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30 May 2008, 9:18 am

A lot of teachers should be shot... when I was little they did the same thing with an ADD boy, the kids got to throw insults at him.

If I ever see some of the stupid b*****s that tought my classes again, I'd be tempted to spit in their faces.



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30 May 2008, 9:24 am

slowmutant wrote:
What are these overly precious homeschooled kids supposed to do about university? Generally speaking, you need some kind of secondary school diploma to be accepted.

An article about the rapidly increasing university opportunities for homeschoolers:

http://www.boston.com/news/education/hi ... oors_open/

In the UK the prestigious universities of Oxford and Cambridge, amongst others, have already stated that they find homeschooled students more mature, more capable of independent autonomous work, and more creative and innovative in their ideas, solutions, and projects than many/most students from the public/national school system.

Definitely sounds like a case of
slowmutant wrote:
...overly-precious students who drink from sippy cups at age 21...
... NOT! :roll:

:study:



LoveableNerd
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30 May 2008, 10:55 am

slowmutant wrote:
How many of our Aspie heroes were too precious for public schooling? Temple Grandin has a doctorate. She went to a big scary university and studied with all the other scruff-monkeys for years to get where she is today.

What are these overly precious homeschooled kids supposed to do about university? Generally speaking, you need some kind of secondary school diploma to be accepted. Mom & Dad are not equipped to be a hermetically sealed university campus for but one overly precious student who drinks from a sippy cup at age 21.


No, they have to go to a real university, BUT there are plenty of universities (Ivy League included) that welcome them with open arms, considering they tend to be light years ahead of their public schooled peers academically. This includes unschooling, which I myself advocate, and I will quote the WikiPedia article about this:

Quote:
Unschoolers have been admitted to most universities (including Ivy League schools). The article Homeschooling: Back to the Future? states that "in the absence of a transcript or high school diploma, applicants can submit samples or a portfolio of their work, letters of recommendation, and CLEP and Stanford Achievement Test scores." Some universities consider unschoolers to be an asset because they tend to love learning, be self-motivated, and know what they want to get out of their college experience. According to Johnathan Reider, an admissions officer at Stanford university, speaking of home educated students in general, "The distinguishing factor is intellectual vitality. These kids have it, and everything they do is responding to it."


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