20 shooting victims in California active shooter situation -

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04 Dec 2015, 11:17 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

frenchmanflats wrote:

Lukeda420 wrote:

Nurseangela

It's possible other incidents may take place. There is still a lot we don't know. There might have been others involved and there might not have been. It's still to early to be sure.

I still say it's best to wait until things calm down before hanging on to any particular detail. The story is still developing and the investigation is still in its infancy. But to each his own.

I think that the FBI and ATF have a good idea what happened. Its two Radicalized Islamists who committed a horrendous act of terrorism. This guy was appearing on the "radar" of the FBI. We know he went to Saudi Arabia several times and visited Radical Islamists websites. He had enough ammo and pipe bombs to start WWIII

I think that last bit is most definitely an exaggeration.

They did have thousands of rounds of ammunition and dozens of pipe bombs, thank god they were killed because they surely would of struck again. Far more people could of died.

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04 Dec 2015, 11:30 am

Quote:

WASHINGTON — The woman who helped carry out the shooting in San Bernardino, Calif., on Wednesday had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State in a Facebook posting, according to federal law enforcement officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/us/ta ... pe=article

as expected

Sweetleaf
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04 Dec 2015, 11:34 am

Jacoby wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Oh, some mentally ill elderly white man shot up Planned Parenthood and you call that "domestic terrorism"? Give me a break, what a joke.

Ummm there is nothing funny or joke like about what happened in colorado springs...and yeah it was domestic terrorism as it was out of opposition to abortion and the planned parenthood organization, it wasn't just a random mass shooting. What just because he's not an arab or part of a established terrorist organization its a joke to call it terrorism?

And I guess Ill have too see what updates have come out about the california thing....but last I checked they have not linked it to ISIS or terrorism. Isn't it just as bad for people to jump on that idea as it would be for them to jump on the idea they where white christian terrorists for instance? Also of course it was planned but that doesn't mean it wasn't related to work-place conflict rather than having a political 'terrorist' motive.

It's a joke because there was such a rush to call that terrorism by partisan leftists in this country who are now screaming from the roof tops that this is just "workplace violence" just like they did at Ft. Hood, 100% that is a joke. These same people were literally calling it terrorism hours before when they thought the perpetrator was white and you can look this up on twitter or wherever, this is all about what political narrative they can run with and Islamic terrorism run counter to what they want it to be. Like I said, this administration blamed our ambassador getting murdered in Libya on a Youtube cartoon when they know what was really going on and what Christopher Stevens was really doing in Benghazi. We have a criminal gangster government who wants to disarm us, I don't think it's wrong to be a little troubled by that.

You can call the Planned Parenthood guy whatever you want, he is mentally ill with an extensive criminal record and history of violence. Do I think he was acting on behalf of any sort of organized ideology? Not any besides the one the exists in his head, it's kind of like calling Jared Loughner a terrorist. Like well, sure, I guess, but he's a schizophrenic that is completely detached from reality. Loughner by the way who I don't think anyone could deny is completely insane was described as "quite left-wing and liberal". It's a smear technique to try to tie these people to a political ideology, what I find to be the biggest joke of all are all these disgusting people who were literally cheering for this guy in San Bernardino to be white so they could use it as a battering ram against their political opponents but now it's just 'workplace violence'. They did the same thing in Boston too, look it up! There was serious articles on like Salon saying "please be a white guy".

We can wait for the information to trickle out but Syed Farook by most accounts was a devout Muslim who had become increasingly religious over the last few years, he went to Saudi Arabia and returned with a wife who fully participated in this shooting, there as obviously a lot of planning that went into this, he doesn't appear to have suffered from any mental illnesses or have any history of violence. He was employed, he wasn't getting fired, perhaps they should tell us what that confrontation he had at work was all about because I'm interested in knowing because this was not a spur of a moment thing. Also I'd be interested in know what words were exchanged before the police killed these two if any. I really wonder what words might of left his mouth before open firing on police, I have a guess.

Ok what mental illness did the Colorado springs shooter have? As far as I know that hasn't been confirmed...and even if it was the case that doesn't mean the mental illness can be blamed per say...that depends on if they knew what they were doing at the time of doing it or if they were out of their head due to psychosis or something as well as if it was premeditated or not and things like that. Having a past criminal record or even a mental illness does not rule out that it was a terrorist act...and beings thus far his motivations seem to have been anti-abortion and anti planned parenthood does sort of point to that political motive terrorism involves.

As for this California incident I couldn't say whether its terrorism or not, I will have to wait till more information comes out about the motive....I don't want to jump to a conclusion either way yet.

As for the Colorado Springs thing I didn't initially assume it was 'terrorism' I thought there was a good chance there just happened to be a planned parenthood place at a shopping center someone decided to shoot up....then I learned it was specifically the Planned Parenthood clinic targeted out of opposition to abortion which certainly does point to domestic terrorism. Regardless of if he subscribed to a specific political and/or religious ideology or not he was still an extremist in whatever he believed....so yeah still not seeing how its a joke to classify it as domestic terrorism.

I guess it comes down to how you define terrorism. I suppose you could say a mentally ill person can commit a terrorist act but there isn't a coherent ideology behind it rather a sickness whereas These folks in San Bernardino seem like they were radicalized and we're in contact with suspects online being investigated for terrorism links and they found their smashed phones in the trash. It seems they tried to wipe their hard drive too. This wasn't a lonewolf attack, it is only the third time in like 50+ years there was more there as a multiple shooter mass shooting.

Yes but having a mental illness doesn't mean your ideology and thinking processes are incoherent at all times, mentally ill people can subscribe to coherent ideologies/beliefs...and commit crimes fully aware of what they are doing. It really depends on the specific mental illness and how it effected them at the time of the crime. As far as I can tell the Colorado Springs shooter isn't classified as having a specifc mental illness his ex wife says he has targeted planned parenthood before and that he was abusive to her he could just be a nasty person with an agenda no mental illness.

Also as I said I cannot rule out there wasn't anything to do with Islamic extremism in the California shooting...I just don't think that Muslims carried out the shooting necessarily means that it was related to Islamic extremism. If it turns out that is the case, than it will make Islamic terrorism much closer to home I suppose...of course colorado springs a**hole got to the terrorism closer to home status first.

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Sweetleaf
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04 Dec 2015, 11:36 am

Jacoby wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

frenchmanflats wrote:

Lukeda420 wrote:

I think that last bit is most definitely an exaggeration.

They did have thousands of rounds of ammunition and dozens of pipe bombs, thank god they were killed because they surely would of struck again. Far more people could of died.

Yes I am glad they were stopped, I just doubt it would have caused WWIII had they made it further and killed more people. I mean considering at least the guy was an american citizen...who would they have declared war on?

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04 Dec 2015, 11:44 am

nurseangela wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

These two "terrorists" were lonewolves. We've actually had several Americans leave here and go to Saudi Arabia and get"trained" then come back. ISIS has even tried to recruit people to become lonewolves. Obama doesn't want to come out and call this terrorism because these two were Muslim and like I said before - Obama is a freaking Muslim.

Do you have evidence that he is a muslim...and by that I don't mean if his parents or other relatives might have been. I mean do you have evidence that Obama actually follows Islam? Or is this like that conspiricy theory about him not having a birth certificate. Also though, again not sure how hate and discrimination towards Muslims across the board is going to solve anything regardless of if this shooting does prove to be terrorist related.

I don't care if you think Obama is a Muslim or not. Keep your head in the clouds. One thing is that I am tired of everyone having to be politically correct. From here on out, I trust NO Muslim - and definitely not the one in the White House.

CNN just said that the guy was radicalized and involved with international terrorists. Obama should be coming out immediately and addressing the situation as terrorism. BUT he won't - because he is on the side of the Muslim terrorists - whether you want to believe it or not. They are going to try to pin this on workplace violence. BS!

I don't know how questioning your claim that he's a muslim which as far as I know hasn't actually been confirmed by anyone has anything to do with being politically correct. My concern is more that it could be factually incorrect. Just because I am not a right winger doesn't mean I am obsessed with political correctness. Also regardless of if you distrust all muslims across the board or not the ones who are U.S citizens are still entitled to the same rights as everyone else.

I mean why are you so trusting of whatever sources told you Obama is a Muslim and that he even supports muslim terrorists? I personally don't trust CNN as a reliable news source...more a sensationalist news source. But I suppose I gotta shed all political correctness and start assuming every arab is an Islamic extremist and start calling middle easterners sand n****s right?

Surely your response of hate and extremist views towards anyone who identifies as a Muslim is the most logical response, if you want rights of Muslims suppressed, deportation of anyone who is a muslim regardless of citizenship status and promote hate and discrimination towards the lot of them how are you any better than the Islamic terrorists huh? People acting like you and HisMom who was posting yesterday are part of the damn problem.

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HisMom
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04 Dec 2015, 11:56 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

Now supporting constitutional rights for all citizens and opposing baring specific citizens from certain rights due to their religion makes one a bleeding heart liberal? In that case I suppose its a good thing to be.

It would be unconstitutional to ban people from owning guns based on their religion/spirituality....And it wouldn't do anything to stop any of the non-muslims who might commit violence now would it? You are letting hatred blind you.

How many non-Muslim radicals run around and shoot people up around the world ? Count 'em and let me know, then we'll talk.

You talk about blind hatred on my part, while willfully ignoring the victims and their sufferings. Where is YOUR compassion for the innocent victims of such a horrific tragedy ? Where is your compassion for would-be victims who were saved only because of the quick action of local police who took those monsters out before they hurt, maimed or wounded more people ?

Neighbors of Syed Farooq and Tashfeen Malik did not report suspicious activity because of people like YOU - they feared that you and others like you would label them hate-filled racists, demonize and ostracize them for going after "innocent, devout Muslims" and profiling these monsters solely on the basis of their "religion", and what happened ? Over a dozen people died. Heck, if it saves lives, profile away and report away.

Better safe than sorry. Better to be branded a hateful racist than to live with the haunting thought that a little more due diligence on your part could have saved lives.

Your opinion (and the opinions of those with fake political correctness and holier-than-thou attitudes like yours), Madam, can kiss my vast behind.

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Last edited by HisMom on 04 Dec 2015, 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Adamantium
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04 Dec 2015, 11:58 am

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's official.

The dumb SOB* pledged allegiance to Baghdadi. ISIS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... cial-says/

*Should be DOB since it was the wifey, Tashfeen who pledged her allegience to IS...

Last edited by Adamantium on 04 Dec 2015, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.: fixed wrong link

Dox47
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04 Dec 2015, 12:04 pm

androbot01 wrote:

PBS: Here’s a map of all the mass shootings in 2015

Quote:

According to the tracker’s data, the San Bernardino incident represents the 355th shooting this year

A mass shooting is defined as an event with 4 or more victims.

Did you know that ShootingTracker is a project run by two anti gun redditors, and includes things like bb gun attacks in their "statistics"? People cite them because it tells them what they want to hear.

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androbot01
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04 Dec 2015, 12:12 pm

Dox47 wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

PBS: Here’s a map of all the mass shootings in 2015

Quote:

According to the tracker’s data, the San Bernardino incident represents the 355th shooting this year

A mass shooting is defined as an event with 4 or more victims.

I did not know that. Thanks Dox.

I think people need to remember that our control over mass killers is impossible. People who want to act out destructively will do so in any way available. Arm everyone, arm some people, it doesn't matter. Gun violence is just part of reality now.

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04 Dec 2015, 12:22 pm

http://www.mediaite.com/online/wapo-and ... ir-source/

The scoop on Shooting Tracker.

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Dox47
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04 Dec 2015, 12:27 pm

Also, in case anyone didn't know already, violent crime rates are at 1957 levels, you know, that time when you really could buy guns over the counter or through the mail. Perhaps there are more effective means of combating the remaining violence without trampling upon the rights of hundreds of millions of people?

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Adamantium
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04 Dec 2015, 12:55 pm

Given the reports of the ISIS connection with the wife and the husband's phone calls with people who were under sruveillance, it seems surprising that the President and FBI have not come out and named this for what it clearly is: homegrown Islamist terrorism.

That he may have picked his work party as a nice soft target because he was mad at the boss or proselytizing Christian coworkers is a detail that does not change what this is.

My hope is that we will learn that delays in this kind of proclamation are connected with ongoing operations to detain those with whom these depraved individuals have been conspiring. Just as police operations in France and Beigium continued for some days after the Paris attacks, FBI and other police and security forces may be rounding up co-conspirators of these two and others they were networked with. Perhaps Quantico got good information from the hard drives they tried to destroy.

Sweetleaf
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04 Dec 2015, 1:11 pm

HisMom wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Well in the U.S it would seem most mass shooting type attacks aren't committed by muslims for starters, but specifically white males. Obviously organized Islamic terrorism is very much at large and is responsible for much violence worldwide they even kill other muslims who aren't extremists. But even so how does that mean outright discrimination against all muslims and arabs would be a good solution or coping strategy against terrorism? Wouldn't that just encourage people to terrorize arabs and muslims?

Some shootings have been said to be carried out by people with Aspergers...how would you people on this forum calling for discrimination of muslims feel if they decide you're all would be shooters and deport or lock you up? I guess its ok to jump to conclusions about all muslims based on the actions of some...but its not ok if the media does that to us aspergers people?

Also I am very sad for the victims, and I believe I already stated I think its terrible that it happened...and my compassion for them is part of why I am not jumping on the 'All muslims are terrorists and should be discriminated against' bandwagon I think it would do the victims a dis-service use this as an excuse for discrimination and hatred of an entire group of people....that group being muslims and arabs. And makes me feel icky that people like you are doing just that.

Also I don't think someone is a hate-filled racist for reporting suspicious activity...not sure where you got I was that kind of person. I might think that of someone however if what they mean by suspicious activity is 'I don't like dem der people that are different from me so investigate them.' But you're not talking about criminal activity and incidents you are calling for discrimination of an entire segment of society....how is that not bigoted?

Also I am not faking anything, I am legitimately disturbed that even people here on WP want to react to extremism.....by becoming more extremist themselves, and by the comments about how all muslims should be deported, locked up or have their rights more limited than their fellow citizens. I would prefer not to enact a police state you know.

I get sick of people acting like peoples opinions aren't valid if they express them in a non-derogatory way because 'OMG its teh politically correct!' I guess I missed the part where being belligerent and derogatory is the best way to articulate ones views. If being disturbed by the things I am disturbed about makes me holier than thou fine.

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HisMom
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04 Dec 2015, 2:40 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

HisMom wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Curiouser and curiouser. White males and people with Asperger's, eh ?

Do you know that DAESH has declared war against America, specifically ? That they want the ISIS flag to flutter atop the White House ? They have called for people from within to attack as the resident Jihadis would "know the enemy better". They specifically love attacking during the holiday season, especially Christmas. And that concerns me - I want my kids to be able to enjoy the holidays without having to worry about a bunch of rabid b@stards shooting at sight. But of course my children's rights to life, limb and the pursuit of happiness takes second place to the right of Jihadis to live among us waiting for the perfect moment to attack, eh ?

And, of course, let's worry about those white males with guns and people with Asperger's likely to go on a rampage, while giving all bearded, praying, "innocent devout Muslims" the benefit of the doubt, even when they are talking to KNOWN international terror suspects, and making contact with questionable elements because those contacts are so soft and so rare ! ! And, of course, let's bring in Syrians in droves, because they are just "refugees fleeing a country at war". And, of course, mass surveillance of these after their immigration is anti-legal process and constitutes "discriminatory racial profiling". So, let them run loose, let them make their Umrahs and Hajjs, let them come back with foreign born spouses with little to no loyalty and certainly NO respect for America and her people... because GASP ! !! We are just such a liberal lot ! !!

Unless you have LOST a loved one, unless you've been in a position where you've had to explain to a 3-yr-old that Mommy isn't coming back, unless you have ever had to comfort a distraught widow whose husband was murdered in cold blood in broad daylight, unless you've had to receive a "body" which is not really a body, but just bits and pieces of flesh and you don't even know if it your loved one's body, you need to shut the f**k up, and take your bleeding heart sympathies someplace else.

And, oh, yes, go ahead and profile those white males and people with autism... but let the rest of us hateful, awful, right-wing, wicked racists actually act as responsible, alert, diligent citizens without having to never hear the end of it, will ya ?

Thank you !

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04 Dec 2015, 2:48 pm

First,

Quote:

Well in the U.S it would seem most mass shooting type attacks aren't committed by muslims for starters, but specifically white males.

is false. It's a fairly even mix, not predominated by any one race. That includes serial killers as well. It's like saying all thugs are black. It's just false.

I'm in the area where this happened. I know the people (not the shooters, but the victims, and the victim's friends and family - they're my friends, or... were, in some cases...). I worked for the county, my mom did as well, and we have many friends who do as well. The county buildings are still shut down, including schools, the fear is still there along with the confusion and mourning.

And I see people spouting about gun laws, and I want to know, what laws would have prevented this from happening? How can laws stop people who broke the laws we already have? They bought guns and modified them to be automatic, with extra large clips, which are very illegal here. Pipe bombs are illegal here. These people didn't care about the laws. They were Daesh terrorists and they had been planning this for a while. How can you stop that?

We're already a crime ridden area full of gang violence, and domestic violence, and if you know the right people, you can get an unregistered firearm within the day. We have people smuggling weapons and drugs and various other things into this area. We're broke, the county has been making cuts to the police and fire departments for years, what are we supposed to do? No one cares that we have people dying due to gang violence all the time here. Who cares if an innocent family gets caught in the crossfire? Only when it fits an agenda. So what are we supposed to do?

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Sweetleaf
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04 Dec 2015, 3:05 pm

HisMom wrote:

Curiouser and curiouser. White males and people with Asperger's, eh ?

Do you know that DAESH has declared war against America, specifically ? That they want the ISIS flag to flutter atop the White House ? They have called for people from within to attack as the resident Jihadis would "know the enemy better". They specifically love attacking during the holiday season, especially Christmas. And that concerns me - I want my kids to be able to enjoy the holidays without having to worry about a bunch of rabid b@stards shooting at sight. But of course my children's rights to life, limb and the pursuit of happiness takes second place to the right of Jihadis to live among us waiting for the perfect moment to attack, eh ?

And, of course, let's worry about those white males with guns and people with Asperger's likely to go on a rampage, while giving all bearded, praying, "innocent devout Muslims" the benefit of the doubt, even when they are talking to KNOWN international terror suspects, and making contact with questionable elements because those contacts are so soft and so rare ! ! And, of course, let's bring in Syrians in droves, because they are just "refugees fleeing a country at war". And, of course, mass surveillance of these after their immigration is anti-legal process and constitutes "discriminatory racial profiling". So, let them run loose, let them make their Umrahs and Hajjs, let them come back with foreign born spouses with little to no loyalty and certainly NO respect for America and her people... because GASP ! ! ! We are just such a liberal lot ! ! !

Unless you have LOST a loved one, unless you've been in a position where you've had to explain to a 3-yr-old that Mommy isn't coming back, unless you have ever had to comfort a distraught widow whose husband was murdered in cold blood in broad daylight, unless you've had to receive a "body" which is not really a body, but just bits and pieces of flesh and you don't even know if it your loved one's body, you need to shut the f**k up, and take your bleeding heart sympathies someplace else.

And, oh, yes, go ahead and profile those white males and people with autism... but let the rest of us hateful, awful, right-wing, wicked racists actually act as responsible, alert, diligent citizens without having to never hear the end of it, will ya ?

Thank you !

You totally missed my point which was it would be stupid to profile white males and people with autism, based on the actions of some. Just like I think it is wrong to profile all muslims as terrorists because of the actions of some, ISIS/DAESH does not represent all muslims and even kills muslims along with non-believers.

If it's too liberal of me to suggest we don't use this attack to turn muslims and arabs into second class citizens or 'deport' them(obviously ignoring the fact there are muslims who are citizens of the united states)based on the actions of extremists...than I guess I'm a bleeding heart pinko liberal commie and proud of it. Also I have been in an active shooter situation having to wonder if the gunman was going to come into the classroom I was in and shoot us but instead it was a different classroom but a student was still shot...so don't you go making your assumptions that I have no experience with the aftermath of violence. Also if you don't like my posts don't read them but I have every right to post here so don't tell me to shut the f*** up.

And what of the recent Colorado shooting, I guess people who target planned parenthood for violence are so much more safe than any domestic Islamic terrorists we may have in this country.

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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 04 Dec 2015, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 shooting victims in California active shooter situation - Post Reply New Topic

20 shooting victims in California active shooter situation -