What is your reaction to the death of Osama bin Laden?

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My reaction to his death, is indifference. I rarely feel, unless it changes my own life.

My reaction to the reaction of his death is awe. I can't imagine MYSELF ever celebrating someones death, so I am always amazed that others can feel different than me. I personally feel that we are living in end times, and this is one more sign of the accelerating pace of moral decline.

I guess little Osama came out of hiding, and got a good beating.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I hope for his liberation in his next life. This life he had led needed to end, but I couldn't celebrate, and feel a bit disgusted at the celebrations.

I vote "indifferent". I do think that no person has the right to kill another human being. That said, he had it coming. He is responsible for the suffering of so many, he was a traitor and has elevated hate and fear to a lifestyle. While I would have preferred if they'd captured him alive, from a political view point, I can understand that it is the much more tactical choice to kill a terrorist like him. Sure his death will call for revenge, but an alive bin Laden would have tempted an even greater retaliation, because he could have been pressed free (in theory).
In a related note: I can understand the political reasons for Pakistan being upset (they have little other choice than to claim this for more than obvious reasons). However, putting such an important operation at jeopardy by informing the Pakistani government and this extend maybe on of bin Laden's agents, in my oppinion, Obama did the right thing. We will probably never fully understand what happened that night, why it happened, how it happened and all. Here in Germany, many people are crying about the "U.S.A World Police" again. For me, it boils down to this: They did what had to be done.

My reaction is to remember that the solution was worse than the disease. 9/11 killed just under 3,000 civilians. Our response killed well over 100,000 civilians in Iraq alone (plus well over 3000 American soldiers just in that country).

There are better ways to stop terrorism. I live in Britain and grew up in the 1970s, when the IRA frequently bombed us. The number of deaths from "the troubles" was greater than 3,000 (and Britain is a much smaller country). We eventually learned that the only way to deal with people who hate you is to talk to them. From a position of strength, obviously, but then you gotta talk. Killing them only made them hate us more, but talk led to the end of the problem. As Churchill said, jaw jaw is better than war war.

You have to remember, my country was then lead by one of the more intellectually lackluster presidents we've ever had, but was surrounded by people who knew how to manipulate the masses with The Big Lie.
That said, it should be remembered that Bin Laden and his followers were fanatics who were beyond talking to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Interesting, I grew up in the 70's and my preconceived notion of terrorism was one of internal conflicts in a country from the news about the IRA on TV all the time. At that point Muslim terrorism wasn't even on the radar as I remember my perception of terrorism at the time.

Or, to quote Hobbes (the tiger, not the philosopher), "It's hard to co-exist with things that want to kill you."

The top levels, yes, but they rely on public opinion in Pakistan, etc., and those ordinary people are more fickle and pragmatic.

I think my experience is colored by growing up as a religious fanatic. I understand how they think. I was a Mormon for 35 years. Before 9/11 the biggest peacetime civilian massacre on American soil was caused by Mormons (the Mountain Meadows Massacre, also on 9/11, but the year was 1857).

The key to understanding the other side is to understand that they truly and sincerely believe that they are the innocent ones. Just as we truly and sincerely believe that we are the innocent ones. To reach them we need a narrative that allows them to still believe that. It's what diplomacy and face saving are all about. It's no different from dealing with any other proud group.


That is what they say about us. Given our invasions, unmanned drones and global reach, they have far more reason to believe it.

Thomas Hobbes said pretty much the same thing when he proposed the Leviathan State to put an end to the warre of all against all.

ruveyn

Except that this is easily given the lie, as is the proposition that "all Muslims want to kill us" - the United States did peacefully coexist with Islam for over two hundred years. (Excerpt from the preamble to the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797: "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion ,- as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen..." Excerpt from the autobiography of Thomas Jefferson: "Where the preamble [of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom] declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting the words 'Jesus Christ,' so that it should read, 'A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;' the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.")

No, the group with which we cannot coexist is that group which holds that the mere existence of any nation outside their control is an unbearable affront, and which, deprived of an actual army with which to go to war, will indiscriminately slaughter women, children, the elderly, and noncombatants of all descriptions, in direct violation of the words of Mohammed - that is to say, that group from which spring the terrorists of the world. Note, please, that while I have mentioned Mohammed, not all such terrorists are Islamic, by a long shot - cf the Tamil Tigers, the Ku Klux Klan, the even darker underside of the American Nazi Party, and many people on both sides of the unpleasantness in Ireland. Islamic terrorists are grabbing the headlines, certainly - headlines fed, in part, by eight years of propaganda fed us by those who find Americans easier to control when they can keep us afraid - but they are by no means the only perpetrators of this evil.

You are referring to a time when the U.S. had virtually no overseas interests outside the Western Hemisphere and the Islamic principalities had no military power to project their religious fanaticism outside of Asia and the Middle East.

Times have changed. The big factor, of course, is Oil. If only we had not become so dependent on Oil.

ruveyn

But otherwise, DeaconBlues makes a very good, very well stated point that evil is not only localized among Muslims, but is found anywhere, where violence and intolerance have sway.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Agreed. But I am British and during much of that time we were busy invading them. We invaded (or caused regime change) in Afghanistan, Palestine, Iran, Egypt, Iraq and anywhere else that took our interest. I can understand why they hate us.

My initial reaction was that I was shocked. I never thought that he would be caught. I also thought that he was hiding out in someplace like Kyrgyzstan or Georgia, etc.- never would have guessed Pakistan.

I am not sad for him, and think that the scumbag had it coming, and I don't blame the Sept. 11th families for being glad about it; on the other hand, I did not whoop it up and dance around in the street, and I still feel concerned that this could cause us serious danger when the revenge-plans get finalized. Said revenge might not even necessarily come from al-Qaeda themselves. There are sympathizers all over the globe.

How convenient the war on terror coincided with the rise of China and other third world nations. The next phase of Globalisation commenced after War on Global Terror. Police state laws to keep us all safe from one bogeyman: Osama Bin Laden.

Osama Bin Laden was a former CIA agent and was made famous by the media with 9/11 event and government.

All of those lives of US troops and allied troops and Iraqi and Afghani civilians sacrificed to kill one media lead figure of global terror. What a waste of lives, time and effort. We safer are apparently more safe and secure now than 10 years ago.

Bin Laden the pin up man of global terror has already seen the start of revenge attacks around the world.